[WEC] Are American Manufacturers incapable of fielding LMP1?

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Danathar

That begs the question though.

How can it be beneficial for Toyota and Audi but not GM?

All three are global car manufacturers and sell cars everywhere. All three (and soon to be 4) P1 competitors have stated they get good ROI in terms of development feedback making these cars.

Who says its beneficial for Toyota and Audi?

I am about half serious and half joking with that statement. I have no doubt that somewhere, some level of money pays dividends when used to sponsor motorsports. And some auto companies (likely not that many) are tightly bound to motorsports as either part of their image and/or the types of cars they make.

Ford and GM are global brands. Maybe they are investing just the right amount for it to make sense. Who knows. I know those who chase down sponsorship likely have plenty of Powerpoint presentations that show the benefit of sponsorship. Especially as the levels to run something like WEC or F1.

With that being said, I am a huge motorsports fan and hope that auto manufactures in addition to well heeled companies continue to support and sponsor motorsports. Even if it doesn't make much sense to me personally!

Richard

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

The American auto companies don't like to go anywhere where the rules aren't influenced by their presence. Scared of competition might be the phrase I'm looking for.

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

While an American entry into LMP1 would surprise me, I guess they're just being naive and not ready yet in my opinion when it comes to racing prototypes in the highest level.

I have to say that comments like this really make my chuckle.

While the various individuals that run or drive motorsports at someone like Ford or GM might very well be naive as to some of the specifics (mostly because they are just not doing it now), that really doesn't make them special.

And regarding "influenced by their presence", you have got to be kidding me. Who involved in racing at that level (especially factory participation) is not trying their best to be the 800lb gorilla?

I would love to see Ford or GM jump into prototype racing, but I would be shocked to see it happen. I just don't think it is even on their radar. And when I mean "them" I mean corporate. I am sure the motorsports departments are willing.

Richard

[J Jay]

Short answer - No, because they don't need to.

Long answer - Their NA fans are (by and large) served by their participation in NASCAR and Indycar. For the concentrationally disadvantaged audience there's Kenny to the B and rallycross, which Ford have a big presence in already. In other markets Ford aren't really known for motorsport, they just make decent* road cars for a variety of purposes. These are no longer the days where personal slights can motivate entire motorsport projects; the money available for "marketing" purposes will have been considered very carefully, and at the moment LMP1-H isn't worth it.

Could this change with a resurgence of sportscar racing? Possibly, but even then Ford/GM may question the benefit of fighting for column inches with 5+ other manufacturers.

*Obligatory YMMV here, of course!

[Maelochs]

As far as I know the GOBS of cars GM and Ford sell overseas are the compact, low-profit, high-volume commuter cars and delivery vans and such. hrd ot explain how a billion-dollar, multi-year Le Mans program is going to boos those sales.

Audio and Porsche selll A.) low-volume, high-profit luxury and sports cars and SUVs, and B.)low-volume, high-profit luxury sports cars and SUVs.

Toyota, I don't know how the race folks sell that to the bean-counters.

In fact, as race fans, I suggest strongly that we never ask the question, "Why do factories race?" because sooner or later someone in a factory is going to say, "Yeah, why do we?" and we're all screwed.

[Pandemonium]

The only American manufacturers that can do something proper are Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumann.... Oh Wait...

[MoMedic9019]

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

The only American manufacturers that can do something proper are Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman.... Oh Wait...

A Skunkworks LMP would be epic. It would be stupid fast, black, radar invisible(Corvette/Audi would never pick it up on their rear facing radar)be powered by some exotic fuel that can be used as hydraulic oil, and require a whole other car to start it(along with some explosive chemicals)

Visually, I imagine, it would look something like the Lamborghini Egoista..

[isynge]

I seem to remember the funding for the soup kitchen Courage Cosworths of a few years back was supposedly coming from a US defence/aerospace company...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Maelochs

As far as I know the GOBS of cars GM and Ford sell overseas are the compact, low-profit, high-volume commuter cars and delivery vans and such. hrd ot explain how a billion-dollar, multi-year Le Mans program is going to boos those sales.

Audio and Porsche selll A.) low-volume, high-profit luxury and sports cars and SUVs, and B.)low-volume, high-profit luxury sports cars and SUVs.

Toyota, I don't know how the race folks sell that to the bean-counters.

In fact, as race fans, I suggest strongly that we never ask the question, "Why do factories race?" because sooner or later someone in a factory is going to say, "Yeah, why do we?" and we're all screwed.

Toyota Hybrid Racing. The only place they can use their hybrid expertise. Just like Audi and 'diesel'. Just like Nissan and 'electric'. Ford touts 'ecoboost', theres your reason for doing it, Ford.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by TF110

Ford touts 'ecoboost', theres your reason for doing it, Ford.

However, Ford doesn't use their "Ecoboost" engine to a proper prototype car yet (barring DPs since they're just mid-engined stock cars).

[Hendrix]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

The American auto companies don't like to go anywhere where the rules aren't influenced by their presence. Scared of competition might be the phrase I'm looking for.

Fairly certain every company that has a motorsports program tries to influence the rules of whatever series they are in to their favor (There is a reason the FIA is called Ferrari International Assistance).

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

The American auto companies don't like to go anywhere where the rules aren't influenced by their presence. Scared of competition might be the phrase I'm looking for.

..and yet there is Corvette and Viper in GTE.

[Articus]

Originally Posted by Pandemonium

The only American manufacturers that can do something proper are Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumann.... Oh Wait...

You sir are on to something! Now wouldn't that be something special if an aircraft manufacturer built an LMP!

[PascaLM]

Originally Posted by Articus

You sir are on to something! Now wouldn't that be something special if an aircraft manufacturer built an LMP!

Yes, Matra used to make missiles too...

[wolfhound]

Oh and the Chevies round this part of the world are made by ...........Daewoo.

I think for the American manufacturers it might make sence for Ford to be involved in a World championship as there are Fords for found almost everywhere. GM is a more difficult case as they have different brands in differnt parts of the world with only a small amount of these available outside their home territories. From a marketing point of view this would be difficult on a world scale.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

..and yet there is Corvette and Viper in GTE.

Honestly I think the branding thing is more significant for the American big 3 than the other companies. The Corvette and Viper is there because you can go out and buy a Corvette or a Viper from a dealership. You can't run in to your local Toyota dealer and shell out $4m to buy a TS040 even though that would be awesome.

[Beetle]

Answering the original question, no, American manufacturers aren't incapable of fielding LMP1s. But why would they want to? The only time LMP1 machinery will even race in America is during the FIA WEC event at CoTA this September. And even then there have been rumors about the feasibility of that event going forward, and some people think it may soon only be a TUSC thing. Then you're left with the Montreal option, which is regional but not "American."

It just isn't logical, I'm afraid. There's no need to waste money on a global championship when they don't even have any interest in it.

But one can hope... I do hope we see a Ford LMP1 one of these days, even if it's only a render!

[pigs fly]

Both Ford and G.M. are pulling out of Australia soon with Ford going in 2016 and G.M.(Holden) closing down in 2018 and that's after Holden have been selling their cars back into the U.S. first as Pontiacs & now as Chevy SS that a lot of U.S. police departments have brought.

[Alex Langheck]

Just get Ford of Europe to run any Sportscar programme.

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Alex Langheck

Just get Ford of Europe to run any Sportscar programme.

I don't think it wouldn't be good for an American standpoint since the Sports Car program is being run by Europeans. Unless there's an American driver or crew, it's not considered an American effort.

[JoestForEver]

The last time they tried prototypes was 2000-2003 era. I remember Cadilliac Northstar LMP1, Chrysler and Panoz in the game, but they were not competitive enough. I really do wish they come back with a brand new LMP1 though. Come on, at least bring us Ford.

[Mystery]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

..and yet there is Corvette and Viper in GTE.

A series BOP'd within an inch of its life and therefore open to their noisy lobbying ways (not that they're alone in that of course....)

[MagVanisher]

Ford would be successful if they have some European expertise, just like Oreca and TMG. Maybe they could ask Prodrive for help if they're not bound by some manufacturer.

[Koenigsegg]

Originally Posted by MagVanisher

Ford would be successful if they have some European expertise, just like Oreca and TMG. Maybe they could ask Prodrive for help if they're not bound by some manufacturer.

Aston Martin Racing is run by Prodrive. So a Prodrive - Aston Martin - Mercedes-Benz effort is probably more likely.

[Mal]

Any manufacturer is capable - it all depends on the resources put to it and the team put together to run it.

Porsche has effectively built a completely new bespoke facility and team for its LMP1 effort there is no reason why anyone else cannot do the same if they choose (and can afford) to make sufficient commitment.

[dbagtbag]

Originally Posted by Mal

Any manufacturer is capable - it all depends on the resources put to it and the team put together to run it.

Porsche has effectively built a completely new bespoke facility and team for its LMP1 effort there is no reason why anyone else cannot do the same if they choose (and can afford) to make sufficient commitment.

Yep, money to build the facilities, money to hire the right people and money to run the team.