Stewards Reprimand both drivers.

[wnut]

Splatz the Cow the cow has shown the risks of interlocking wheels.
Hamilton placed the whole of the pit lane in danger through his action.
What is more worrying is that he escaped penalty, it is his second warning following the weaving incident. The message is clear that a driver should never give way to Hamilton because his actions are condoned and he will receive an advantage if the accident is avoided, so just play hard ball and who cares if someone gets hurt/killed.

This is exactly what the stewards are there to make sure doesn't happen!

I believe that left unchecked Hamilton's actions will result in someone's death! This pitlane "incident" is of very serious concern!
Racing amongst people is just not on!

[strider]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I think it's called the tyre surface, with slicks?

I think it's still called the tread, because tyre engineers talk about the tread depth, i.e. the amount of rubber on the carcass of the tyre, but we all know what we're talking about.

Getting back to the main topic, I said during the race that the likelihood was that the two drivers would be reprimanded and a clarification issued prior to Barcelona. The first part has happened and I'm sure the second will follow, because that type of driving is indeed very dangerous to other people in the pit lane.

[rocketracer]

Originally Posted by neilap

Hey, Lewis agrees

well of course he does - he is the beneficiary in this matter!

--

i get the feeling that the only reason the stewards decided not to hand out a penalty is because they had no written grounds within the current regulations - which are somewhat vague, and only really cover the releasing of a driver into pit lane, which was all clear in this case.

there's little doubt that this type of racing in pit lane is potentially far more dangerous than single file. Yes, pit lane is dangerous anyway, but this creates unnecessary risks.

[Marbot]

Brundle would have handed out penalties.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-...hould-tougher/

[ECW Dan Selby]

That's quite interesting. I always tend to agree with Martin. Has alot of common sense, and i'm somewhat bias after reading his book

Selby

[old man]

Brundle repeats the question posed here, are reprimands added up and if so what is the result?

Let me say first of all that I agree the moves by both drivers were dangerous and worthy of censure but the race does, in effect, continue in the pit lane because the speed of the pit stop is vital to the race result so each pit stop is race between the pit crews. In this case the cars were side by side from the straight, into the pits and out again and the Red Bull stop must have been fractionally quicker than the McLaren stop. Both cars slid as they came out of their box and with the adrenalin pumping the drivers will continue to race. Anyone who has raced even at club level knows that when you come into the pit it all seems very slow after the track action and conceding a place is against a drivers instincts, gaining one his objective.

I can see two things happening: Firstly, as has been said, Charlie Whiting will lecture them all on pit stops in Spain and secondly, the team managers are likely to get together because of concerns expressed internally by their crews.

We also need a ruling on "yellow cards" but I want to see track action as we saw it in the last 3 races and I would point to Hamilton's comments about being smarter, perhaps he needs that manager he is supposed to be looking for?

[ukaskew]

Originally Posted by strider

I agree that no penalty was required, ditto Alonso and Massa, but I'm sure Charlie will issuing a very strong clarification at the next Drivers' Briefing, because both incidents involved drivers going off the track

It's a very confusing situation, surely going 'off the track' to gain a position is the most obvious penalty that should and could be dished out?

Ted Kravitz had this to say:

"I understand that Felipe Massa was furious at team-mate Fernando Alonso's cheeky overtake as they both came into the pit lane. It was all very legal, as the pit lane didn't start for another hundred metres or so when Alonso made his move.

Am I missing something fundamental here regarding the white lines that Alonso and Hamilton cross (completely) at the pit entrance? Surely it's a track boundary line, and therefore very much illegal.

[strider]

Originally Posted by ukaskew

Am I missing something fundamental here regarding the white lines that Alonso and Hamilton cross (completely) at the pit entrance? Surely it's a track boundary line, and therefore very much illegal.

I can't be bothered to look it up, but my feeling is that the white lines define the pit lane entry road and that you shouldn't cross them except unavoidably. Having said that drivers do cross them to straight-line the approach and I don't have a particular problem with that, but for overtaking, no.

Although publicly Ferrari are playing down the incident, I see it as Alonso very clearly putting down a marker that he is #1 at Ferrari and that's how it's going to be.

[pannenmann]

Hamilton should have given in, at least after his rear wheel spin. You might take this alone as an indication that he wasn't driving safely in the pit lane anymore. Maybe he should have been punished, from a safety point of view. But then again Vettel pulling to the right didn't help either. So what to do about him? Punish him too? Hand out the same penality to him as to Lewis? Pretty tough decisions to make here.

Gladly nobody got hurt and the way the stewards decided was ok as long as they tell the drivers that it is no longer ok to do so. To me it seems the reprimands are used as rule clarifactions this seasons, and I like that. It makes clear what is ok and what is not, while at the same time we don't have those ridiculous punishments that destroyed races and whole WDCs in the past when the rules weren't clear. So as long as the rules aren't clear, hand out reprimands, and if drivers continue to violate these rules, then punish them.

But I still think LH left the track when overtaking SV towards the pits. Yeah I know, this is part of the race track. But you aren't allowed to leave the track with 4 wheels. And LH was over that white line with 4 wheels. In my interpretation this line marks the inside of the track, else you wouldn't need a line at all would you? Think about it this way: If the lines don't mark the inside of the track, what else? The grass? Don't think so. So if there would be no track limitation, it would mean at this exact point you would be allowed to "leave"/stay on it (like LH did) and drive around as you wish, because obviously you never left the track and therefore are still on it, no matter where you drive now. The track has to have a limitation at all points, and at this position it has to be the line in my view. Or tell me what else should be the limitation?
Btw the same applies to FA of course as he did the same. And to Lewis first "late" pit entry too, I guess.

[pannenmann]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Brundle would have handed out penalties.

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/formula-1-...hould-tougher/

Can't agree with the drive-through for JB at all. I know it is not allowed by the rules, but drivers used to do that slow-down thingy for ages and nobody got punished. You can't suddenly ruin someone's race for doing smth that is obviously well accepted. If you want to get rid of that behaviour, then in this case a reprimand would be perfect to make clear it is no longer acceptable.
It also not allowed by the rules to slow down when your further behind in the pack behind a safety car. Yet Vettel said he slowed down so he didn't have to wait for Webber's pit stop to finish. So Brundle should at least mention him also. Actually I think it is even more severe when you think about the consequences. If everybody does what Vettel did the whole pack will be spread out around the track and the whole benefit of a safety car phase is put in question.

[old man]

The pit entry debate could run and run as whenever we have changes in track conditions or a safety car that prompts mass pit stops it will happen.

Perhaps we should ask the FIA to call for direction indicators on the cars, LH gave a hand signal but SV obviously did not see it

Of course it is difficult to give a clear hand signal when the cockpit surround is so tight fitting round the driver's shoulders

[Born Racer]

Brundle repeats the question posed here, are reprimands added up and if so what is the result?

I wouldn't have thought so. They are more akin to something of a rule clarification in themselves, saying "Look Mr Racer, this is silly and from now on, it won't be acceptable".

Regarding pit stops, how about a person from each pit crew being designated as responsible for checking if there is space between their driver and any car coming down the pit lane? I had thought someone was responsible for that. They could then give their thumbs-up or whatever to the jack man, just like tyre changers do. That might not have solved the issue here though, where Hamilton got a slide on and ended up alongside Vettel.

Incidentally, I think Vettel was pretty naughty pushing Hamilton to the right.

[djb]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

I know you're making your point and I agree with you about locking wheels, in referrence to Hamilton and Vettel but I don't like the idea of watching SOMEONE die to prove your point.

actually, two someones....

track worker was killed when hit by flying car.

yes, pitlane speeds are nothing like this incident, so as I said in my comments on this, cars will not fly up like this, but getting a umpteen kg car into the head or back even if it is sliding on the ground at 60 or 80k is nothing to sneeze at--and is still why I made my comments and disagree with those who think it isnt a big deal.

ps, I have been in the Lemans pits on two occasions. One for a pre-race test and one for a race (not the whole race obviously), the ACO is very strict on not spinning your wheels when leaving your box, and I can see why they are. There are lots of bodies in that pit lane, and they certainly do not want any incidents and so while it seems rather goofy, the no spinning the wheels rule certainly must help with reducing rash pit exits into the path of another car--just because you have to be careful with clutch and throttle, not drop-it-and-bang-to-the-limiter.....

just another take

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by djb

actually, two someones....

track worker was killed when hit by flying car.

My comment was in reference to a video clip showing the fatal crash of Jeff Krosnoff, that was posted on this thread.

I'm glad to see the link has been removed.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

My comment was in reference to a video clip showing the fatal crash of Jeff Krosnoff, that was posted on this thread.

So was djb's. Krosnoff's accident claimed not only his own life, but that of a track worker.

[neilap]

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2010/04/2...arding-so-far/

Well written analysis.

[Adam43]

It is certainly better than the fans deciding (see above)!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

So was djb's. Krosnoff's accident claimed not only his own life, but that of a track worker.

I'm all to aware of what happened. What I didn't like was the posting of that clip, which I made clear at the time and my quote that djb used was in reference to that clip being posted.

As it is I'm glad it's been removed and if I'm not mistaken you had it removed so thanks.

[Kirk]

Just watched the clip on youtube, and I have to stick with my original conclusion that it was innocent. Both drivers were careful to not get too close and Vettel moved only marginally to the right to prompt Lewis to move behind him. Both drivers would be at max pit speed and Lewis knew he had lost the position. Much ado about nothing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyodQblymf8

[wnut]

Originally Posted by neilap

Brundle sounds like he wants the old system back. Lets just say this, if anyone weaves to "break the tow", overtakes in the pit lane, enters in a pi$$ing contest exiting the pits will be penalized the next time. What these reprimands do is clarify things. I am willing to bet anyone that does something similar will be penalized.

The NEXT TIME????!!!!! is not good enough. The use of common sense to avoid unacceptable behaviour should be actively encouraged! Escaping penalty for the "pi$$ing contest" in the pits just beggars belief!

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by wnut

The NEXT TIME????!!!!! is not good enough. The use of common sense to avoid unacceptable behaviour should be actively encouraged! Escaping penalty for the "pi$$ing contest" in the pits just beggars belief!

Totally agree. It'll be interesting to see if the next time translates into the rest of the season, or into action being taken.

[wnut]

Fernando must be a bit peeved that his penalty for ever so slightly jumping the start was so harsh! I mean start a tenth of a second too soon and attract a drive through. Completely out of proportion.Should have just added a tenth of a second onto his race time.

[cptkablamo]

So how many reprimands can you get before you actually get a penalty - or can you break every rule in the book, as long as you don't break the (exact) same rule twice???

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by cptkablamo

So how many reprimands can you get before you actually get a penalty - or can you break every rule in the book, as long as you don't break the (exact) same rule twice???

Maybe there are different rules, though unwritten, for former WDCs?

[old man]

Originally Posted by cptkablamo

So how many reprimands can you get before you actually get a penalty - or can you break every rule in the book, as long as you don't break the (exact) same rule twice???

This question has been asked several times here, by journalists and Martin Brondle and I am sure will be clarified before or in Spain

wnut, you jest of course. From the quality of your posts on technical matters I suspect you are an engineer with a team and so are very concerned about pit safety. I doubt so far as that pit incident is concerned, there will be a "next time" as CW will make the point strongly to the boys!