Lydden Bank Holiday Monday

[silver bullet]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

So far I have resisted putting up the photo

Oh no, you got a picture Go on give everybody a laugh, and show them what a plonker I am.
Oh, and bigted, I hope you realise everytime I come to the dummy grid now, I will be asking you to check my bonnet pins



There are some great pics from Lydden in the Art & Photography section.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by silver bullet

Oh no, you got a picture

You didn't seriously think I'd have missed that opportunity did you?

(It's not the greatest picture in the world ever but it does the job I'll dig it out this evening)

[BOY BLUNDER]

Ah bert we've got to see that photo,i think i know what it will be,sorry SB.

BB....

[Spectator]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

You didn't seriously think I'd have missed that opportunity did you?

(It's not the greatest picture in the world ever but it does the job I'll dig it out this evening)

Bert can't you get it posted earlier we need a good laugh on here for a change
Be kind to SB though....he does make a good cup of coffee and even has chocolate bisciuts.

[bigted]

You wont be asking me!

[BertMk2]

Here's that moment:

[Guffy]

Looks like another caption comp could be in order.......!

[sihorton]

"Smile, your on candid camera!"

si

[mivec]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Here's that moment:

Next time paint ALL parts.

[Guffy]

Well i've seen it all now, even the bonnet blushed with embarrassment......!

[M.Lowe]

At least he cant blame the service crew lol

[winnie]

Hog, just seen your reply.

I was making a factual observation about some cars being penalised for jump starting. Many other spectators close to me had the same views. I did not make any allegations that any of the officials or marshals had been cheating and i have no comments to withdraw. You have twisted my observation into a 'allegation that you have cheated' which is not my view at all.

You previously said 'the lights wre at fault', then you said it was 'the jump indicator on the 3rd row'. It seems like you don't even know what happened!

Why can't Lydden get some decent starting equipment. The drivers pay enough in entry fees and are constantly having to upgrade helmets, seats, belts etc to keep up with current standards, so why can't you get better quality starting equipement that does away with any uncertainty.

Why can't you disconnect beams on rows that are not being used as this will reduce the chances of false starts.

I think it was last year when Gibson rammed into the back of Carnegie in one of the finals and forced him to retire - i'm sure it was due to the starting eqipement triggering a false start.

Mel, i agree, the fiesta looks a decent car, certainly very powerful. It was often in the wrong gear on the tarmac, he must have worn his throttle cable out as it sounded like a woodpecker going round the corners and he just didn't look comfortable.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by winnie

You previously said 'the lights wre at fault', then you said it was 'the jump indicator on the 3rd row'. It seems like you don't even know what happened!

I think you're misinterpreting what Hog has said - the lights showed the jump to come from the 3rd row. That's it. There was no fault with the lights - they did exactly what they're supposed to. It looked like Pat jumped because he made the biggest movement - but that was after the orange light had come on to indicate a jump from the 3rd row (so he just reacted to the change on the lights).

Originally Posted by winnie

Why can't Lydden get some decent starting equipment.

I think it was last year when Gibson rammed into the back of Carnegie in one of the finals and forced him to retire - i'm sure it was due to the starting eqipement triggering a false start.

I don't think there's much wrong with the equipment - is it Lyddens equipment or is it the BRDA's? (Do they use the same gear everywhere?) Does the same thing happen at other circuits?

The Gibson/Carnegie incident was unfortunate but that may have been triggered by drivers reacting to a change in the lights caused by a genuine jump start (much as Pat launched after the jump on Monday). (I don't know that is what happened - it's just a theory)

[BOY BLUNDER]

Yes Bert they are the BRDA'S light system and yes they go to every circut that we race at,i would just like to say,though i dont think that i have to justifie to people is that,when the SUPERCARS come out for their heats or finals,when they hit their rev liminters,on the startline,it becomes very dusty,stones start to fly through the air,and our beams are that sensitive that dust or a stone on the rows that are not being used can get broken,of which then set of the jump light.Quite alot at all the circuts i get hit with various items when the supercars go off the line.
Its funny though everytime on this forum after a lydden rallyx certin people have to rip the startline crew apart,they never congratulate us for doing 63 heats and finals DO THEY .

BB....

[BOY BLUNDER]

Come out, come out, where ever you are.Sorry SB.

BB....

[Hog]

Originally Posted by winnie

I was making a factual observation about some cars being penalised for jump starting. Many other spectators close to me had the same views. I did not make any allegations that any of the officials or marshals had been cheating.

The "tone" of your post suggests that you and those around you were not happy that some drivers were penalised, and not others, and

Originally Posted by winnie

It must be coincidence that i have seen drivers like Mundy, Hill, Grant, Gibson etc being put to the back, but have never seen drivers like Doran, Carnegie, Jordan, Tracey etc penalised.

suggests that we are biased in the choice of who gets penalised.

Originally Posted by winnie

You previously said 'the lights wre at fault', then you said it was 'the jump indicator on the 3rd row'. It seems like you don't even know what happened!

By "lights" I was referring to "lights triggered by the beams" - the beams reacting to vibration/dust/stones/whatever and indicating a jump start.

Originally Posted by winnie

Why can't Lydden get some decent starting equipment. The drivers pay enough in entry fees and are constantly having to upgrade helmets, seats, belts etc to keep up with current standards, so why can't you get better quality starting equipement that does away with any uncertainty.

You'll have to speak to the holders of the purse strings on that one.


It's people like you Winnie that make me wonder why the hell I bother. On post from 9am till the end of the day, in that time we got 25 minutes to have a wee and grab a drink and a sausage roll. All voluntary, and at my own cost to travel and feed the girlfriend and kids. Burnt when it's hot, soaked and shivering when it's cold and wet.

And what thanks do we get for getting through 60+ races...........?

None. All we get is the ill informed like you who think they can do a better job but never actually stand up and put themselves in the firing line. You come on here hiding behind your monitor, levelling accusations at those that actually do the job you are belittling, saying "why doesn't this happen" or "why was this allowed to happen"............

Do you realise in 20 years of marshalling, I've had 1 driver come up to me at the end of a meeting and shake my hand for a job well done? Mr Pat Doran - and it meant a hell of a lot.

Tell you what Winnie - if you can do so much better you do it. I won't bother next time. Lydden is short of marshals as it is. Would you prefer it if the meeting was cancelled next time because of a lack of marshals as they'd got fed up of being slated for trying to do the best they can with the equipment they have? Or would they deprive you of having something to moan about?

When you've done the job for 20 years Winnie, put up with abusive drivers, mechanics and specators; stood out in the sun, rain, snow and thunderstorms; dealt with broken cars and broken drivers, made do with second rate equipment; shelled out of your own pocket for travel, accomodation, fireproof clothing and safety equipment, and given god knows how many hours to the sport that you enjoy - just then you might be qualified to pass judgement.

You're entitled to an opinion - but don't start trying to pass it off as fact until you get the right facts from those actually in the know.

[BOY BLUNDER]

Yo go for it Hog well said my man.

BB...

[sihorton]

As a driver i always appreciate the work you marshall do and i always try and have a bit of banter with everyone when possible, indeed u guys give me as much flak as everyone else

Seriously though without you guys, drivers can't go racing and there would be no event, and i'm sure all the drivers out there would agree that we all appreciate you all standing out in all conditions so we can go race.

Si

[Queen]

Well said Hog. I for one, was very please to see you and the rest of the marshal's turn out for yet anther busy day. Thank you one and all for your very hard work on the day.

[Hog]

Okay - there are some that thank us lol

[Chessmsport]

I have marshalled competed and spectated at Rallycross and realise what a great job marshals do, without them there would be no racing, so to all marshals and officials don't be put off by a small minority of whingers who never have have a postive thing to say.

[King Arthur]

As the Clerk of the Course on the day firstly can I give my unconditional thanks to the startline crew - all of them. They are and have been for many years one of the best in the sport.

When I hear / read people criticising them I get

a - very cross

b - very dissapointed

c - and most important very worried for the sport as without them and all the other marshals there will be no meetings.

If you want to have a go at the organisers then please stand up make yourself known and I for one will be happy to discuss any matter provided civility is maintained.

Also if you have a problem talk to me do mot lambast those who are doing a fantastic job under my delegated authority.

Winnie - I offer the hand of friendship and would personnaly like you to come and work with us at any round at any circuit. It will obviously cost you the same as us . We would listen and take much more notice of your comments then.

To all who attended and worked on BH Monday if I have not already said thank you then please accept this message as a personal thank you to you all.

Those who know me understand that I am approachable and will discuss most issues ( we may not always agree) but at least we will have had an open and sensible conversation.

Over to you Winnie the offer is there in public.


Tony Watts

MSA Clerk of the Course

ps If anybody else would like to spend a day with us at any of the MSA events contact me I am in the Blue Book.

[winnie]

I have not criticised any marshals, in fact i have previously said that they do an excellent job. I have only made observations which have been totally blown out of all proportion. I have not even mentioned organisers and concidering the state of british rallycross i am sure you don't want to go down this road.

Hog, if you want to be in full view of every-one with possibly the best job as a marshal, and in control of lights / starts etc then you have to accept that rightly or wrongly you will be asked to justify some of your decisions. You have answered my question about jump starts, but you still insist in going down the same old road as all other marshals and officials of 'i am not getting paid, missed my lunch, had to pay petrol to get hear, without us it wouldn't happen crap. If you don't enjoy being a marshal then **** of and find something that you do enjoy doing but don't keep on moaning. Be honest, you and all the other marshals are marshals because you enjoy it, which is great. Motorsport needs marshals, it needs spectators and it needs competitors, and none of them do it for free. If you do decide to find another hobby, which i honestly hope you don't, there will be some-one to step into your boots.

KA, i have marshalled many times at my local 'grass track' and enjoyed it. Can't see that i will benifit from doing a days marshalling. When i used to compete i had a few conversations with CoC's and to be honest i always found them unapprochable and aragant, but i have never met you. I was given points on my licience for cutting across the grid just before the end of the white line while 10 yards in the lead at the old croft and docked places at
lydden for '4 wheels off' going through the chicane when other 'star drivers' were '4 wheels off' coming off cheesons and were not penalised. I have been on the grid for an A final in Pembry with 'wets' as the organisers had previously told us that the track would be watered after the final of the previous race. I was the only person on wets and am confident that i would have won the final. Some of the 'star drivers' kicked up a fuss and refused to go out until they run another race because it was too wet. The CoC agreed as usual to 'the stars' and ran the rally car class which dried out the track. Mr CoC, i have been there and do not wish to comment on previous CoC's as my view will get blown up again.

[King Arthur]

Just to be clear I was not offering a days marshalling I was ( and still do) offer you a day(s) with me as C o C or one of my deputies - your choice.

I would be more tha happy for you to sit in on any judicial (as an observer) and also sit with me when I go though the reports.

I just wish to invite anybody who is critical to come and see at first hand what happens.

If they / you go away with the same view then so be it.

What you have experienced in the past seems to have (and I can understand that) affected your opinion.

I am happy to work with you without preconceptions - are you prepared to match me.

KA / TW

[Steve Gibson]

Well said Tony !

And just in case anyone dosent like you or the BRDA then I will match your offer of showing them what goes on at an event that I am running.

Steve