Rise of the ILMC

[Dyson Mazda]

After watching the 12 Hours of Sebring and then looking at the entry lists for the ALMS and LMS it has become clear which direction the sport is headed in. Does anyone see the day in the next two years when the ALMS and LMS die off and merge into the ILMC. Looking at the grids for the three series it is pretty obvious where the big boys want to play (aside from Corvette Racing). If you put together a schedule of 5 NA Rounds, 5 European rounds, and 3-4 rounds elsewhere (Mid East, SA, Asia) and a good viewing package it is something I would definitely support.

[The Badger]

Be great if it turned into a world series ..... but then with the world comes the Fia ..... dont like the sound of it , true world series would be cool .

[Jamesy-18]

It's a shame the LMS won't run with ILMC next year. Stupid move really, one which I can only see will be bad for the LMS. You're completely right when you say ILMC is the future. Poor car counts in the ALMS and LMS are clear evidence.

[arakis]

maybe the best solution would be to leave ALMS, and LMS and develop them into GTE championships, an Use 4 race from each series in the ILMC, during witch we would have prototypes. that way you would get the media attention for ILMC, and a better media platform for local(ALMS,LMS) event, because insted off the coverage being focused on small useless lmp feilds, but on the action packed GTE class.

[Deleted]

^ LMS has always had good prototype fields - especially compared to it's American counterpart - and privateer teams won't fancy an expensive, worldwide championship.

[Dyson Mazda]

^ LMS has always had good prototype fields - especially compared to it's American counterpart - and privateer teams won't fancy an expensive, worldwide championship.

As far as transportation costs go, doesn't the ILMC subsidize some of the travel costs?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by The Badger

Be great if it turned into a world series ..... but then with the world comes the Fia ..... dont like the sound of it , true world series would be cool .

FIA have little influence outside of being a governing body, in the old days they also controlled commercial rights.

As for how the three series stand now and in the future, the LMS was already moving towards banning factories and choosing less costly venues rather than those of historical significance, now they can remove P1 altogether and bring in P3/GT3.

The ALMS is an entirely different prospect, there'll be manufacturers and teams who'll focus on NA, others with duel programs but I don't see many switching straight from ALMS to ILMC.

[MJ_N_09]

Just merge the series, but try to somehow help the teams that wouldn't be able to travel globally otherwise.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

After watching the 12 Hours of Sebring and then looking at the entry lists for the ALMS and LMS it has become clear which direction the sport is headed in. Does anyone see the day in the next two years when the ALMS and LMS die off and merge into the ILMC. Looking at the grids for the three series it is pretty obvious where the big boys want to play (aside from Corvette Racing). If you put together a schedule of 5 NA Rounds, 5 European rounds, and 3-4 rounds elsewhere (Mid East, SA, Asia) and a good viewing package it is something I would definitely support.

There is NO way you get 13-14 rounds. The manufacturers want 7 next year.

NA gets two, Europe gets two, Asia gets two... and then another, maybe South America.

Is ILMC interesting, or sustainable with mid-twenties in entries, for the enduros? This whole concept is ill-conceived, by people who are too short-term in thinking.

[AndrewF31]

Indeed.
I fear the day the short attention spanned Manufacturers grow tired of Le Mans racing and decide to jump ship to F1 our Touring Cars or something like that. They're always looking to change sceneries to refresh their marketing image. The question is if someone else would jump in to take over the vacancies left. Not a certainty.

[JAG]

The ILMC is the descendant of the WSC which attracted grids of 35+ prototypes before being cynically wiped out by an envious FIA.

After twenty years the great majority of manufacturers and team owners are eager for the sport to be back on the world stage, if we want to see big budget programs and major sponsors they need a more significant platform than one race per year, no matter how big that may be. When this wasn't in place in the late '90's they left for series that offered such a platform and forced the ACO to take things into their own hands.

A few exceptions aside NA teams compete in NA series due to it being a massive continent and market, it's little different for European teams traveling across the world in everything from single-seaters to rallying.

Within a few years I'd be very suprised if the ILMC didn't t have approx. 10 rounds.

[AGD]

The problem with the ILMC in terms of North America is that companies like Peugeot have no interest in racing in the United States. The ILMC never would have happened without Peugeot. Thus, they have a pretty strong pull on the direction the ILMC goes and I don't think they want more than a couple of races in the United States.

Second, who knows if we would even get TV/Internet coverage of the ILMC. I can't see any TV network signing up to do 10+ live endurance races. TV coverage for the ILMC is very weak even in Europe compared to the non-ILMC LMS races. We'd be lucky to even get highlight shows. Will the ILMC buy airtime on major networks like the ALMS is willing to do in the US?

I think there is still room for the ALMS and LMS, but those series may need to change their rules so they are not as manufacturer dependent. I think the LMS is considering going in that direction.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

After twenty years the great majority of manufacturers and team owners are eager for the sport to be back on the world stage, if we want to see big budget programs and major sponsors they need a more significant platform than one race per year, no matter how big that may be.

Great Majority of Manufacturers?

Who are all these manufacturers? Peugeot and Audi? Aston, a boutique manufacturer... and? Corvette?

[JAG]

Audi and Peugeot alone can make or break a series, even Le Mans itself, and Aston were welcomed into the ALMS when they gave Corvette some competiton.

Two decades back manufacturers and teams were competing across the world, the absence of a world series is the exception not the rule. It was correct to start with a European LMS but when the next step was ready to be taken in 2008 the series' reach was too limited and manufacturers entered one-off events on both sides of the Atlantic.

Last weeks events at Ricard highlight how that series is geared towards competitors rather than commercial aspects, it's a great stepping stone but both manufacturers and major privateers like ORECA, OAK, Rebellion, Strakka and Pescarolo are ready for a greater challenge, I'd rather that challenge be in ACO sportscars than elsewhere.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

Audi and Peugeot alone can make or break a series, even Le Mans itself, and Aston were welcomed into the ALMS when they gave Corvette some competiton.

Audi and Peugeot cannot make or break a series (except ILMC), let alone Le Mans. Their money and participation can help. Aston were welcomed, until they whigned, and whigned...

Two decades back manufacturers and teams were competing across the world, the absence of a world series is the exception not the rule. It was correct to start with a European LMS but when the next step was ready to be taken in 2008 the series' reach was too limited and manufacturers entered one-off events on both sides of the Atlantic.

The exception? Sure, there was something called a World Sportscar Championship, but the last time they held a race in the United States was 1981'. That's three decades ago. They did appear in Canada, three times over the last 12 years though....

Last weeks events at Ricard highlight how that series is geared towards competitors rather than commercial aspects, it's a great stepping stone but both manufacturers and major privateers like ORECA, OAK, Rebellion, Strakka and Pescarolo are ready for a greater challenge, I'd rather that challenge be in ACO sportscars than elsewhere.

I'm not sure how you don't see it, but there isn't enough of a grid for ILMC on their own. The incompetence making the decisions at ACO and ALMS will see the ALMS collapse through combined decisions, and ILMC won't see more than a few years. The timing, and process were ill conceived, and poorly thought out. Unfortunately, that is par for the course.

[JAG]

Audi and Peugeot cannot make or break a series (except ILMC), let alone Le Mans. Their money and participation can help.

Merely exisitng shouldn't be a goal, the 2008 LMS season will go down in the history of sportscar racing, the seasons before and after will be a footnote.

Aston were welcomed, until they whigned, and whigned...

Much like Corvette when the Vipers were dominant, since this time performance balancing has become the norm.

The exception? Sure, there was something called a World Sportscar Championship, but the last time they held a race in the United States was 1981'. That's three decades ago. They did appear in Canada, three times over the last 12 years though....

That's because NA racing is a seperate entity and the primary reason the ILMC shouldn't affect the ALMS, competing across NA is equivalent to European teams running in a rest of the world series.

I'm not sure how you don't see it, but there isn't enough of a grid for ILMC on their own. The incompetence making the decisions at ACO and ALMS will see the ALMS collapse through combined decisions, and ILMC won't see more than a few years. The timing, and process were ill conceived, and poorly thought out. Unfortunately, that is par for the course

The ILMC will be no different to the WSC, the grid will consist of the top 30 or so cars from Europe with a smattering of entries from NA, Asia plus locals. New markets like China will interest manufactuers, sponsors and bring investors that previously would only consider F1, WRC, WTCC, MotoGP, SBK.

The LMS will continue on it's own path with great racing and developing teams and drivers, while I would hope as the ALMS provides such a great product and is the only series that has an increasingly important relevance to road car developments it will gather more support.

Two years back Peugeot and Honda were rumoured to be off with Audi apparently joining F1 with Prodrive Aston. Today all of the major manufactuers are back with bigger programs, the likes of Toyota and Porsche are taking a keen interest and GT racing looks well balanced to cater for manufactuers and privateers.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by JAG

Much like Corvette when the Vipers were dominant, since this time performance balancing has become the norm.

No, completely different. Aston didn't have the money, and ran subpar Pirelli's. It was the biggest farce in racing history.

That's because NA racing is a seperate entity and the primary reason the ILMC shouldn't affect the ALMS, competing across NA is equivalent to European teams running in a rest of the world series.

Sorry, but let me remind that there is a business reality missed here.

The ILMC will be no different to the WSC, the grid will consist of the top 30 or so cars from Europe with a smattering of entries from NA, Asia plus locals. New markets like China will interest manufactuers, sponsors and bring investors that previously would only consider F1, WRC, WTCC, MotoGP, SBK.

Field of dreams... just because?

[quote]The LMS will continue on it's own path with great racing and developing teams and drivers, while I would hope as the ALMS provides such a great product and is the only series that has an increasingly important relevance to road car developments it will gather more support.[quote]

Really? So, the LMS is a development league? The ALMS would provide such a great product? Are you paying attention to what is happening in North America?

Two years back Peugeot and Honda were rumoured to be off with Audi apparently joining F1 with Prodrive Aston. Today all of the major manufactuers are back with bigger programs, the likes of Toyota and Porsche are taking a keen interest and GT racing looks well balanced to cater for manufactuers and privateers.

Honda is back? I may have missed that. Where was the factory Honda entry at Sebring?

Porsche is, and has almost always been interested in generating profits in selling cars. Can you please link me to where Porsche stated they were taking a keen interest in Protos?

BMW is highly likely in their last season supporting this genre.

Toyota is surely testing things with Rebellion... think they are happy so far?

This isn't Field of Dreams, they require business reasons. I admire the optimism though. There isn't much point in trying to point out the failings in the Field of Dreams thinking in the future though.

[JAG]

The field of dreams you speak of is not some future wishlist, this season will go down as one of the best in the sports history. 62 entries at Spa but the real telling point is the strength in depth, in addition there are a plethora of teams learning the ropes in strong national series.

The ALMS maybe going through a shaky time but the sport as a whole is in a very healthy state.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/News/Se...Le-Mans-teams/

[Fogelhund]

I suppose some would also suggest that the record highs of the S&P 500 and the Dow Jones on October 9, 2007 were signs of economic strength too. Of course some could see through that, just as they can see through what is going on now. I'll leave it alone now.

[FordCosworthPanoz]

Ive always been a critic of Ratel and his regulations, but I cannot deny that GT3 is on the rise. Sure the LM24 is the arguably the biggest race in the world (in my opinion it is), but if you can bring your car (or modified versions) to the Bathurst 12 hour, Dubai 24 hour, Spa 24 hour, Nurburgring 24 Hour, and possibly next year the Daytona 24 hour, along with the many popular championships that involve or center their rules on FIA GT3, then looking from a team owners point of view, or even a car company or sponsor, wouldnt that be more attractive than the ILMC?

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

I suppose some would also suggest that the record highs of the S&P 500 and the Dow Jones on October 9, 2007 were signs of economic strength too. Of course some could see through that, just as they can see through what is going on now. I'll leave it alone now.

Anyone who followed WSC '91/'92 or FIA GT '97/'98 will be aware of boom and bust, both had clear failings with illogical regs and little thought for the differing needs of manufacturers and privateers. Today there is clear differentiation and a ladder to build teams to World Championship level.

[Spyderman]

I would take that Porsche article with a pinch of salt.

Here is a statement from Matthias Muller from an interview printed in the latest official Porsche magazine Christophorus.

Is there already a concrete road map for
racing?
At the moment everything is still under
discussion. The important thing is that
we continue to promote our customer and
amateur racing and thus meet the needs of
our customers. In the process, Porsche can
always gain new knowledge to develop the
sports features of our vehicles. And we’ll
take top-level racing as it comes.

[Gingers4Justice]

Sports car racing needs more press coverage. A lot more. Having a few races live on Eurosport and Motors TV is poor. How is Joe Public meant to get in to the sport?

I'd say the ILMC, seen as its a world championship, is more likely to get something closer to the coverage it deserves. But its the ACO. It will still fall short.

You go on to Autosport or Dailymotion, and you know when the FIA GTs are on! And the quality of coverage on the streams are second to none; the best non-F1 coverage I've watched of a motor race. So why can't the ACO get together?

My point is this: the ILMC is a great idea. But it's not going to really take off and feel big until the ACO gets serious about promoting it. And I mean parts of races live on Sky or ESPN over here and highlights on National television - even if its a saturday morning. Sort that out and everything else WILL follow.

Win the race on the Sunday, and sell cars on the Monday, the old saying goes. Well you can't sell any cars on the Monday if nobody even heard there was a race on the Sunday.

[Lola T70]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Win the race on the Sunday, and sell cars on the Monday, the old saying goes. Well you can't sell any cars on the Monday if nobody even heard there was a race on the Sunday.

Nice quote

I have seen more sportcars in the last few years on TV and being used in media than for a long time, I agree the ACO have to maybe think farther than their pockets on this one.

[NaBUru38]

Originally Posted by Gingers4Justice

Sports car racing needs more press coverage. A lot more. Having a few races live on Eurosport and Motors TV is poor. How is Joe Public meant to get in to the sport?

I'd say the ILMC, seen as its a world championship, is more likely to get something closer to the coverage it deserves. But its the ACO. It will still fall short.

I don't think that sports car racing needs Joe Public. It's like golf, tennis and polo - it's a sport for the rich. You don't need air television coverage live in 200 countries. More focused public means some sponsors would be spending money only on their actual target. Yesterday there was a Mercedes AMG ad at the Monza Superstars race. You don't see that in F1 or MotoGP.

As AGD said, endurance racing is bound to be shown on specialist channels. That's not bad for this type of world championships.