BTCC on-board camera quality...

[Sodemo]

When BHP used to provide the coverage for the BTCC up until the late 90's, the quality of the on-board cameras was always excellent. You used to get a view of the driver at work, sawing at the wheel, and a view (albeit slightly restricted) out of the windscreen of the track ahead.

In today's era we just seem to have the camera trained on the windscreen, not only that, but the camera often is rather "shakey" almost as if its not been secured properly, and the image quality is terrible compared to the images they used to give.

Anyone care to comment why this is?

[redshoes]

I suspect some of the image quality issue will be down to how the race is broadcast. In the 90s BHP's cameras fed an on-board video recorder, the current ones are broadcast live so have to get sent via a microwave link to the director's suite. I'm guessing the radio link can't handle the bandwidth of having so many cameras transmitting at once.

In terms of positioning, you're right it does seem to have got worse. We used to get not just pictures of drivers but externally mounted camera showing a close up of the car behind or the tyre deforming during cornering, or even one looking into the footwell so we could see the driver's feet dancing on the pedals.

I wonder if there is a cost issue - is the radio link needed for live broadcast more expensive to set up/run than an in-car recorder? BHP could set up a camera to do nothing more than look at the pedals and use maybe a minute of footage from it all day. Would the same camera today be too expensive to justify?

[Craner Curves]

At least the incar sound quality has improved now since the early Motors TV/ITV live races.

[mattt]

the cameras are usually mounted on the roll bar behind the driver so the shakiness is caused by that.


theyre actually turned on about 1-2 minutes before the green flag lap

[touring fan01]

Originally Posted by mattt

the cameras are usually mounted on the roll bar behind the driver so the shakiness is caused by that.


theyre actually turned on about 1-2 minutes before the green flag lap

I think you are confusing the live TV onboard camera's with the ones that all cars have for investigating race incidents. They are the ones manually switched on by the teams on the grid to start recording.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by touring fan01

I think you are confusing the live TV onboard camera's with the ones that all cars have for investigating race incidents. They are the ones manually switched on by the teams on the grid to start recording.

nope, i am talking about the ones the teams turn on

btw for 6 of the rounds so far ive seen this done from 3 feet maybe

[touringlegend]

Yes, but joe public don't get to see the coverage from those cameras.

[mattt]

oh right really i didnt know i've just seen cameras switched on in the cars before the races. marshals dont either, we dont get to see anything except for the start, the cars going along the start of a straight and the finish.

[Icebaby]

Tend to agree, on board stuff is pretty dire and is simply a case of not mounting the camera in the optimum place as BHP did, annoyingly its the loss of driver radio chat that I miss and fail to see why this has not returned as its was an Integrated part of bringing the race to the viewers.

Having said this the coverage IMO is better than WTCC but still needs lots of work, be easier to bring back BHP to sort it out.

Ted Kravitz seems to see BTCC as some sort of joke in the way he comes across,sort of patronising and does not give the series any credit unlike Steve Rider who is excellent.

Bring back Charlie Cox!

[Craner Curves]

Those are the Fujifilm 'spy in the cab' cameras, something the SEATs have adopted as well as the Clios I think for 2008.

Remember though, most of the good onboard stuff and radio communication were from recorded races, not live ones. Mind you V8 Supercars seem to be able to do the live radio comms just fine and their onboard stuff is fantastic. Probably down to budgets.

[Kidzer]

Alan Gow (or ITV/whoever produces the show) will need to get in touch with Gigawave - they do the FIA GT onboard cameras, and they do fancy rotating etc - makes for some brilliant onboard shots!

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by Kidzer

Alan Gow (or ITV/whoever produces the show) will need to get in touch with Gigawave - they do the FIA GT onboard cameras, and they do fancy rotating etc - makes for some brilliant onboard shots!

I don't need no stinkin' rotating cameras. I need sensibly mounted cameras that doesn't move - one inboard in the middle of the car facing forwards, one on the roof facing backwards, one in the rear bumper, one in the front bumper and one for each front wheel. And reaction shots from the pits should be banned, save the pit wall celebration at the finish (though that mostly seems to be a problem for the DTM director. Oh, how I tire of seeing Norbert Haug's face lap after lap).

[Craner Curves]

I would like to see less of the WAGs in the pits, that's for sure.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Magnusson

I don't need no stinkin' rotating cameras. I need sensibly mounted cameras that doesn't move - one inboard in the middle of the car facing forwards, one on the roof facing backwards, one in the rear bumper, one in the front bumper and one for each front wheel. And reaction shots from the pits should be banned, save the pit wall celebration at the finish (though that mostly seems to be a problem for the DTM director. Oh, how I tire of seeing Norbert Haug's face lap after lap).

6 Cameras per car? That seems a bit excessive. The rotating cameras are good (IMO) for seeing both forwards and to turn and get a view of the driver. Why do you feel that a car needs three cameras all facing forward on the bottom of the car? In BTCC, with a field of 20, that would mean 120 cameras all broadcasting.

[stedevil]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

6 Cameras per car? That seems a bit excessive.

Indeed, it would be nice, but for logical reasons that is just a dream. It sure wouldn't help that half a duzen cameras would be destroyed every weekend as well if placed in the bumpers of every car.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by redshoes

I suspect some of the image quality issue will be down to how the race is broadcast. In the 90s BHP's cameras fed an on-board video recorder, the current ones are broadcast live so have to get sent via a microwave link to the director's suite. I'm guessing the radio link can't handle the bandwidth of having so many cameras transmitting at once.

In terms of positioning, you're right it does seem to have got worse. We used to get not just pictures of drivers but externally mounted camera showing a close up of the car behind or the tyre deforming during cornering, or even one looking into the footwell so we could see the driver's feet dancing on the pedals.

I wonder if there is a cost issue - is the radio link needed for live broadcast more expensive to set up/run than an in-car recorder? BHP could set up a camera to do nothing more than look at the pedals and use maybe a minute of footage from it all day. Would the same camera today be too expensive to justify?

There is a cost issue - having a camera recording to tape costs around £200 per day. Having a camera with a live broadcast link costs around £3000 a day.

The BTCC onboard cameras are done by SIS, who also do them for the World Rally Championship and A1GP.

[sceptic]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Having said this the coverage IMO is better than WTCC but still needs lots of work, be easier to bring back BHP to sort it out.

BHP's onboards were only good because they spent two days looking at them all, and choosing which bits to use before they ever went on air.

These days ITV don't have that option, as it's all live.

[Jimmy Magnusson]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

6 Cameras per car? That seems a bit excessive. The rotating cameras are good (IMO) for seeing both forwards and to turn and get a view of the driver. Why do you feel that a car needs three cameras all facing forward on the bottom of the car? In BTCC, with a field of 20, that would mean 120 cameras all broadcasting.

I don't know much about the cost of the cameras, but that was pretty much what the BTCC back in the late 90's had, wasn't it? True however that they weren't the poorest of series back then, though! Two cameras would do fine, although if they took away the pitlane cameras showing useless reaction shots perhaps they'd affoard a few more onboard ones...

And rotating cameras are just irritating....

[crmalcolm]

As the highly technical sport of Cricket has managed to include cameras small enough to fit into a stump, surely it would be possible to mount a camera somewhere near the driver's line of sight giving a truer driver's-eye-view?

[Icebaby]

Originally Posted by sceptic

BHP's onboards were only good because they spent two days looking at them all, and choosing which bits to use before they ever went on air.

These days ITV don't have that option, as it's all live.

Fair point however as ITV have access to all footage from the onboards there is no excuse in the highlights program to then edit in the decent on board footage and also use this in season reviews. Also I fail to see why drivers radio chat cannot be broadcasted as per the 90's as this added to the spectator involvement.

[redshoes]

Get yourself a copy of one of the mid-90's BTCC In-Car videos, vol 2 I think it was. There's a sequence taken during the Silverstone race from David Leslie's car with a camera mounted on Leslie's helmet. Given the technology at the time it must have been like strapping a handycam to your head.

F1 already does something similar during pit-stops with a camera mounted on the wheel-man's helmet.

However there's still the question of cost.

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Icebaby

Fair point however as ITV have access to all footage from the onboards there is no excuse in the highlights program to then edit in the decent on board footage and also use this in season reviews. Also I fail to see why drivers radio chat cannot be broadcasted as per the 90's as this added to the spectator involvement.

Ah yes, who can forget such classic moments as "Bintcliffe's done it again, the cars ****ed" or VX pit to Bennett "just park it, just park it".

There's plenty ITV could do to the highlight package but in reality there's nothing that wasn't in the live coverage. Other than trim for length and add the presenter's opening/closing comments they don't edit in anything.

[JMeissner]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

As the highly technical sport of Cricket has managed to include cameras small enough to fit into a stump, surely it would be possible to mount a camera somewhere near the driver's line of sight giving a truer driver's-eye-view?

Like this?

[Icebaby]

[quote=redshoes]Ah yes, who can forget such classic moments as "Bintcliffe's done it again, the cars ****ed" or VX pit to Bennett "just park it, just park it".

(quote]

Classic lines there redshoes which got me thinking of my favourite:

Reid to Pits in the Mondeo: "Ive got a door open"

Pits to Reid "yep we know just stay out"

Charlie Cox " Reids got a door open..you cant get out now sunshine your busy"

Pits to Mansell:"Nigel we've got a speed lane penalty on the board"

Nige: Negative they can stuff it over I was pulling 68 k's

Pits: Did you hear that..yep speed limits 64

Bring back the radios!

[cos]

Originally Posted by crmalcolm

As the highly technical sport of Cricket has managed to include cameras small enough to fit into a stump, surely it would be possible to mount a camera somewhere near the driver's line of sight giving a truer driver's-eye-view?

ChampCar (or was it IRL?) had cameras within the driver's helmets, so it's definitely possible!