[Rules] Time to scrap the safety car?

[duke_toaster]

I think the spare safety car would be driven by the same guy (Bernd Meylaender). If he's unable to do it they would get another driver in. They could get plenty of qualified drivers from on-site - if need be they could even get a Porsche Supercup driver. If the SC were to break down during a deployment I think they would probably have to red flag the race.

David Croft mentioned on an FP commentary that there are three actual Mercs but two taken to each race.

As far as the medical car is concerned, I heard something about it being Alan van der Merwe at the moment.

[Pingguest]

Yes, I think its time to scrap the Safety Car. I don't believe its a necessary device. If the marshals could do without it in the past, why wouldn't they nowadays?

[jab]

Originally Posted by Pingguest

Yes, I think its time to scrap the Safety Car. I don't believe its a necessary device. If the marshals could do without it in the past, why wouldn't they nowadays?

F1 drivers managed without HANS devices, cockpit side protection, fireproof clothing and even helmets in the past. That doesn't necessarily mean they should go without them today

[Richard B]

Apparently in terms of laps in the lead of a Grand Prix in 2008 the safety car was 8th !!!

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Richard B

Apparently in terms of laps in the lead of a Grand Prix in 2008 the safety car was 8th !!!

At the Spa 24 hour the safety cars (3?) have transponders and appear on the timing screens - some year's they have been quite high up!

[duke_toaster]

Le Mans uses multiple safety cars, but I'm surprised about Spa using it as it's 7km, which is long but not silly. I'd imagine that VLN would have to have about six if it used the safety car!

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by jab

F1 drivers managed without HANS devices, cockpit side protection, fireproof clothing and even helmets in the past. That doesn't necessarily mean they should go without them today

All of those measures were introduced to prevent or defend against death or serious injury.

The safety car was introduced primarily for the benefit of TV scheduling.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

The safety car was introduced primarily for the benefit of TV scheduling.

Yes of course that's right...that's why we use it at Club meetings, the live TV coverage is vital there

TV schedule is one of the reasons but it's not the only reason for a safety car...you're welcome to come trackside and try recovering something from the edge of a track without under yellows if you'd like

[jab]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

All of those measures were introduced to prevent or defend against death or serious injury.

The safety car was introduced primarily for the benefit of TV scheduling.

But the first F1 GP where the safety car was used was the 1973 Canadian GP...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Yes of course that's right...that's why we use it at Club meetings, the live TV coverage is vital there

TV schedule is one of the reasons but it's not the only reason for a safety car...you're welcome to come trackside and try recovering something from the edge of a track without under yellows if you'd like

Or just change an off-side puncture on the hard shoulder of a British Motorway. That's pretty scary and they're only doing a maximum of 70 MPH (honest officer!).

[Born Racer]

If drivers actually did what they're supposed to do under waved yellows- 'slow down and be prepared to stop, it would help.

[Piglet]

Originally Posted by Born Racer

If drivers actually did what they're supposed to do under waved yellows- 'slow down and be prepared to stop, it would help.

It would, but as has been said several times, that doesn't bunch the cars up and its this bunching of cars that enables trucks and marshals to get out onto the track in relative safety without having to watch over their shoulders constantly.

Plus...if one car has gone off there is always a danger of fluids etc. being down that may force another car into an error as well as the danger of loss of tyre pressure etc. because of the lower speeds.

[bdwoody]

i do see why they have a pace car ( i do hate the name safety car ) in f1, tv scheduals , marshal safety ,recovering stranded cars and the like but the fia introduce these things for the pinicle of motor sport and then it has to be addopted for all of it ??? in clubbie curcuit racing we dont go as fast as a f1 car when it's under yellows so i dont see why when a driver bins it in the gravel on lap 1 the coc brings out the safety car to pull the thing out , which takes sometimes forever sometimes and we just trundle on round eating up our alloted time. this happened this year at brands gp and we did 4 racing laps not a lot of good when you spend your hard earned cash to plod around coz someone binned his banger in the kitty litter.

[JeremySmith]

The safety car should remain...

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Piglet

Yes of course that's right...that's why we use it at Club meetings, the live TV coverage is vital there

TV schedule is one of the reasons but it's not the only reason for a safety car...you're welcome to come trackside and try recovering something from the edge of a track without under yellows if you'd like

Fair enough, fair enough, perhaps I was being a bit glib.

As I said earlier in the thread, I'm not opposed to the use of safety cars. I was just pointing out a slight inconsistency in Jab's comparison with helmets, HANS devices...etc The latter were introduced to F1 purely for safety reasons, whereas TV schedules were a factor in the introduction of the SC.

[Piglet]

I agree, TV scheduling is clearly part of it and IMO that drives what I see as a reluctance to red flag GP's and there are times where the amount of debris on a track looks like it would warrant a red but that is going to put a 30 minute hole into TV schedules.

[bdwoody]

it dont stop them when the footy is on !! why motorsport ?

[duke_toaster]

You get more debris on race tracks than on football pitches though :P

[bdwoody]

but a lot more rolling around playing dead or dying .

[Dave Brand]

Originally Posted by bdwoody

in clubbie curcuit racing we dont go as fast as a f1 car when it's under yellows so i dont see why when a driver bins it in the gravel on lap 1 the coc brings out the safety car to pull the thing out , which takes sometimes forever sometimes and we just trundle on round eating up our alloted time.

Marshals will try to move a car without the safety car if it can be done safely. However, if a recovery vehicle is required, on circuits where snatching is not permissible on a live circuit it's either use the safety car or stop the race.

Twice recently I've had cars spin under waved yellows; does that indicate to you that drivers are respecting the waved yellow &, more importantly, marshals' safety?

A fact we have to live with nowadays in club racing is that clubs are trying to cram as many races as possible into the day, which means that we're working to a very tight schedule. Red flagging & restarting a race costs time - why should the drivers in the later races have their race length reduced, as often happens, because of the misdemeanours of drivers in earlier races?

[duke_toaster]

Bit less of a safety risk that

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by bdwoody

i do see why they have a pace car ( i do hate the name safety car ) in f1, tv scheduals , marshal safety ,recovering stranded cars and the like but the fia introduce these things for the pinicle of motor sport and then it has to be addopted for all of it ??? in clubbie curcuit racing we dont go as fast as a f1 car when it's under yellows so i dont see why when a driver bins it in the gravel on lap 1 the coc brings out the safety car to pull the thing out , which takes sometimes forever sometimes and we just trundle on round eating up our alloted time. this happened this year at brands gp and we did 4 racing laps not a lot of good when you spend your hard earned cash to plod around coz someone binned his banger in the kitty litter.

Back in the early 80's at Donington a mate of mine dropped his Mini Se7en into the gravel early into the race. I came round (OK, at that time he was ahead of me) to yellow flags at the corner and found him 'parked'. (OK, I admit it, I did smile a little!). Next lap yellow flags again for his parked car. The third time as I approached the corner, more waved yellows (and I thought, 'I Know, John's parked in the gravel!'), but as I turned into the corner (obviously at reduced speed because of the flags), I saw another car planted in the off-side-rear quarter of my mates car, causing significantly more damage to both cars. Obviously had the Safety Car been used back in those days, this may not have happened, and both cars would not have sustained the additional damage.
Surely it's a known fact that if a car is going to go off at a cartain place due to over-ambitious driving, there's every chance that another one will do exactly the same thing and follow it in?

[ensign14]

Originally Posted by jab

But the first F1 GP where the safety car was used was the 1973 Canadian GP...

And we still don't know who won that race.

[bdwoody]

ah but viva the answer is not to go off then we can all play nicely for 15 mins...

[Steven Humphrey]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Surely it's a known fact that if a car is going to go off at a cartain place due to over-ambitious driving, there's every chance that another one will do exactly the same thing and follow it in?

Definately! But to be honest, you don't really want a car trackside anywhere, even up against the barriers. Cars can go off anywhere due to mechanical failiure or contact. Many years ago a driver was seriously injured when he hit a stationary car which had been pushed up against the barriers. The result of the inquest into this is that hazard boards are now used to warn drivers of a stationary car off the circuit.