[Multi 21] f1 is boring. manufactured for tv.

[mythoughtsareracing]

Weird. The QUOTE button seems to be malfunctioning....

Originally Posted by migliacars

Not true at all.
There are plenty of motor sports that I enjoy.
I get excited every time we race.
I can appreciate there skills in an f1 car. I do not have there abilities. But did not state that.

My comments are true.

No, your posts are your opinion. There is no truth in an opinion, only perspective.

Why are some of you so angry?
Insulting my grammar and spelling isn’t anything to do with the thread. im sure everyone on the earth has some faults and makes mistakes.
Do you think I should not be allowed to post on here for that reason? Or have I hit a nerve.

Your spelling and grammar influence how others view your knowledge about any given topic and lend themselves to judgmental treatment.
It's not so much anger as it is annoyance, as most forum users try to articulate their thoughts clearly.

I will not disagree that F1 is manufactured for television.
All major motorsports series are these days. There is big money to be made with television rights, sponsorships, advertising and so on. Some races can make money from sponsorships and the like even with grandstands that are only half full.

Like it or not, racing is one more form of entertainment. The majority of people watch races to be entertained. That includes you and I, migliacars.
The goal of any entertainment "product" (I hate that word, but it fits in this discussion) is to keep people entertained to the point where they want more.
So committees sit down and discuss what makes a motorsport series entertaining. 99 times out of 100 it boils down to one thing: vehicles driving fast and passing one another on-track.
All of the "advancements" in F1 are aimed at achieving that singular goal: creating more on-track overtaking.

I can't say I'm a fan of DRS, but it certainly helps achieve that goal.
The same with KERS.
The tire compounds that Pirelli chooses for each race also help achieve that goal.
Sure, it's speculation, but try to imagine what the 2012 season would have been like without these elements (or gimmicks, if you prefer). Many of the passes would never have happened. Think about the penultimate race in Austin when Hamilton got around Vettel for the win. He was only able to make that pass because of DRS.
It was one exciting moment in that race. There many others in every other F1 race, as well, the vast majority were opportunities created by one of the artificial aids injected into the series specifically for that purpose.

The logic flows thusly:
Overtaking makes for exciting races.
Exciting races make for satisfied viewers (either on TV or in person).
Satisfied viewers watch more races.
More viewers means more advertising can be sold.
More advertising means more money for the top level.
More money at the top level means the racing series soldiers on.

Yes, Virginia, top-level motorsport is a business, and business is about profit.
Long gone are the days when a privateer with insane amount of talent and ability can get in a car and perform.
Race drivers are bred from a young age to excel. They are starting to get into karting or quarter-midgets or junior dragsters about the time they start kindergarten. I expect in the not-too-distant future, there will be racers born with specific genetics modified to reduce fear, sharpen eyesight and reduce reaction times.

Despite all this, I enjoy F1. I am a fan. I feel fortunate to have been able to attend my first F1 race this year (USGP in Austin), and am still reveling in it.
I like to think I'm able to look past all the made-for-television gimmickery and the political shenanigans from the rich elites that run the series and the teams and enjoy the sound of the engines, the smell of rubber and race fuel and watch cars being pushed to their limits by drivers with talent and skill I could only dream of.

F1 is made for TV? That benefits me, as I watch most races on TV, just like most fans.
Welcome to the new age of big-league racing, my friends.

[Missing Link]

Like most sports nowadays it's a business.

And the business side has grown so much that it's killed off the rawness that we all enjoyed and remember.

I like my tracks with grass at each side, Not like some of these new theme park F1 circuits.

[migliacars]

Originally Posted by Missing Link

Like most sports nowadays it's a business.

And the business side has grown so much that it's killed off the rawness that we all enjoyed and remember.

I like my tracks with grass at each side, Not like some of these new theme park F1 circuits.

I like that to.
I also like it when the cars race in daylight.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by migliacars

...
I also like it when the cars race in daylight.

Which they do for 90% of races.

Do you dislike Le Mans because it races in the dark?

if you don't like F1 don't watch it, for example i don't like darts so i dont watch it, i don't go on forums for dart lovers and call it rubbish.

I'm a marshal and do the whole spectrum of motorsport from clubbies right up to F1 and its a very different sport but neither is better nor worse than the rest.

[Missing Link]

I think the point being made here is that it's all being diluted to have mass appeal, Which is great for making money but not for the sport itself.

[mattt]

Originally Posted by Missing Link

I think the point being made here is that it's all being diluted to have mass appeal, Which is great for making money but not for the sport itself.

But once you get someone interested in the sport whether that is through F1 or other means. if their interest can be capitalised upon it will benefit the whole of motor racing

[Missing Link]

True.... But how many people go to Monaco ( or the rest for that matter ) to watch the racing and how many are just there for the "Scene "

Sometimes the true fan is locked out. If that money moves on the the sport will be dead on it's arse.....


Look at the football clubs that over stretched and are now pleading with the old supporters to please buy season tickets.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by migliacars

the people who watch it have no idea about real motorsport.

Talk about painting with a broad brush! Wow!

Richard

[Matt]

i wonder what kinda racing the OP does, he constantly is talking about it like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Missing Link

Sometimes the true fan is locked out. If that money moves on the the sport will be dead on it's arse.....


Look at the football clubs that over stretched and are now pleading with the old supporters to please buy season tickets.

while i am unsure what a 'true fan' is i do agree that there is a large segment of people who have been priced out of F1. taking your kids to an event, particularly if you have to travel some distance to get there, is a ridiculously costly experience. although, i suppose its fair to say that it is no more ridiculous then the cost of most sporting events these days. as a result 'fans' watch on tv while the best seats at the track (and im talking more so about some of the newer tracks) are reserved for a corporate crowd that sees F1 as a novelty rather than a sport to embrace.

so i agree, that is a problem (huge one even) but i dont see how that makes the on track action boring.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Missing Link

I think the point being made here is that it's all being diluted to have mass appeal, Which is great for making money but not for the sport itself.

But we've been here a thousand times. The overall aim is to make money - don't ever forget that.

I used to go to GPs in the late 80's early 90s, but don't anymore. As far as I'm concerned, it's ludicrously expensive and for me, unjustifiable. I'd much rather spend 3 days at Silverstone for the WEC for a tiny fraction of the price.... I can fall asleep to F1 cars in the comfort of my armchair. But that's just me - I fully understand how for many others, F1 is the be-all and end-all of motor racing. Each to his own.

[Paradise City]

I watch it and I will continue to watch it and I respect the views of others. It's not boring but I do think it is trivialised somewhat with the gimmicks; I don't like it that there's a bit of the circus injected into it. I miss the tough, strong arm F1 you got in the 80's and mid 90's. I do still enjoy it but it's not the ultimate sporting experience that it once was.

[nicanary]

As you say, the aim is to make money. Didn't used to be IMO but a profit was a nice by-product. Times change.

We talk now about budget caps and the like, and I wondered if "in the old days" the real cost was any different. Does anyone have a figure for how much Tony Vanvervell spent before he won the Constructors' Championship and how that equates in real terms today?

I don't suppose the figures are available, but they would make interesting reading. Just to compare with that guy who keeps teenagers in the mood for smashing park benches and phone boxes. Sorry, energy drinks.

[Paradise City]

F1 is a short term investment vehicle for Bernie's pals. That means maximising the number you draw in regardless of the medium/long term consequences to the quality of the sport. Shareholders just want to cut and run away with buckets full of money.

Personally I'd like F1 to have a lower profile. I don't care one whit that it is the 2nd biggest series/event/whatever bar the World cup or whatever that accolade was. I'd like to see a more sustainable austere sport at affordable prices for entrants and broadcasters rather than this speculative bubble that could either bounce or go pop at any given year.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by nicanary

As you say, the aim is to make money. Didn't used to be IMO but a profit was a nice by-product. Times change.

i think there is a difference between racing to make money and racing in order to make the money to fund next years campaign.

certainly the current trend (and the nasty side of cost cutting) is that teams (their investors and shareholders) are now looking for greater returns on their investment rather than trying to find ways to maximize how much their team can spend next year. today a win for them is measured by the size of their dividends not the number of podiums their team secures.

so its a balancing act and the hope for me is that teams try to find a way to satisfy both goals. i suppose there in rests some of the entertainment for me. its always evolving. also i greatly enjoy the financial side of things so i have that going for me.

no idea how much a racing team spent in the 50-70's but even adjusted for inflation no way it is comparable to budgets of 200-300 mil a year like we had in the late 90's early 2000s.

[Aysedasi]

[QUOTE=chillibowl

no idea how much a racing team spent in the 50-70's but even adjusted for inflation no way it is comparable to budgets of 200-300 mil a year like we had in the late 90's early 2000s.[/QUOTE]


Budgets which, let's face it - were utterly obscene.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by migliacars

f1 is boring.
manufactured for tv.
the people who watch it have no idea about real motorsport.
i used to really enjoy it.

it really helps me to sleep though. i think i fell asleep in all of the races.

there is much better motorsport about.

Can you explain which aspects of it are manufactured specifically for TV? Other members have mentioned they too feel it is manufactured, but what about yourself?

I, for example, find DRS a bit gimmicky (and a typical F1 complex solution to a more straightforward problem), but appreciate that if we're going to have all this aero, something to counteract it is not so bad. The gimmicky or arguably even manufactured element is the fact that it can only be done in one place per lap, but at least it's easier to realise it's a DRS-assisted pass like that.

[Aysedasi]

Budgets which, let's face it - were utterly obscene.

[kartincolin]

If we could overlook the business element of F1 for but a moment, there is no circumnavigating the fact that F1 cars are the fastest cars around a lap of any given circuit, has the most spectators watching of any motorsport and as such attracts the world`s best racing drivers to try and secure one of the twenty two seats available.

I know, somebody`s going to say "F1 drivers are only the best at open wheel racing", but my response would simply be, how come drivers who have little to nothing to show for their efforts in F1 (Anthony Davidson, Allan McNish, Alexander Wurz) can almost instantly go to the LMP1 scene and be competitive? It`s because you have to possess a God-given ability to even make to F1 in the first place.

I don`t understand how F1 is manufactured for television, apart from the arguably gimmick innovation that is DRS. Most global sports are manufactured for TV, it`s called "money making". I just think some people need to take off their rose-tinted spectacles and ease off with the nostalgia.

[miatanut]

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

I will not disagree that F1 is manufactured for television.
All major motorsports series are these days. There is big money to be made with television rights, sponsorships, advertising and so on. Some races can make money from sponsorships and the like even with grandstands that are only half full.

Like it or not, racing is one more form of entertainment. The majority of people watch races to be entertained. That includes you and I, migliacars.
The goal of any entertainment "product" (I hate that word, but it fits in this discussion) is to keep people entertained to the point where they want more.
So committees sit down and discuss what makes a motorsport series entertaining. 99 times out of 100 it boils down to one thing: vehicles driving fast and passing one another on-track.

Sadly, this is the truth. I call it Bernievision, and it has caused me to be a former F1 fan. The technical rules are so strict there is very little room for innovation, and if somebody does come up with a new twist, they ban it. I didn't see a single race this year because the stuff that attracted me to the sport is gone, and I'm left pining for what was.

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

All of the "advancements" in F1 are aimed at achieving that singular goal: creating more on-track overtaking.

They are trying to legislate the cars to be as equal as possible, for manufactured excitement, but that means they can't get past each other, so they invent gimmicks to allow passing.

Alternatively, they could open the rules up a lot (using fuel limits to control speeds for safety), and different teams would pursue different innovations, causing the cars to have different performance envelopes, and two cars that had the same lap time could actually race each other because they would each be strong in different parts of the track.

But, that opens a risk that one team could win by a half a lap, or more than a lap, like they did sometimes in the old days, and a lot of people would find that unexciting, and they wouldn't really care about the technical innovations that created that situation.

The money screwed-up professional auto racing.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by kartincolin

I know, somebody`s going to say "F1 drivers are only the best at open wheel racing", but my response would simply be, how come drivers who have little to nothing to show for their efforts in F1 (Anthony Davidson, Allan McNish, Alexander Wurz) can almost instantly go to the LMP1 scene and be competitive? It`s because you have to possess a God-given ability to even make to F1 in the first place.

What about the F1 drivers that have gone and tried other things and failed miserably at it?

[kartincolin]

[QUOTE=Matt;3183981]What about the F1 drivers that have gone and tried other things and failed miserably at it?[/QUOTE

Good point, well made. NASCAR is something that the F1 pack have thus far failed to crack. F1 drivers past their sell by date have not been overwhelming in the DTM, but Kubica has proven in the past few months that F1 drivers can apply themselves to rallying with great success. Such was his blistering speed on the Rallye Du Var that the team principal of Citroen World Rally Team, Yves Matton, said that Kubica could have a future in the WRC!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Matt

What about the F1 drivers that have gone and tried other things and failed miserably at it?

They clearly didn't possess it and probably shouldn't have been propelled into F1 in the first place.

[Scooter185]

The biggest hurdle drivers seem to have is going from road/street courses to ovals. Ambrose kicked lots of rear end in V8s, and the cars aren't too dissimilar to nascar cars, but has only won on roadies so far. but i digress thats for another topic.

Re: F1, I enjoy the WEC more overall I'd say and LMP1 is my favorite class of race car, but I still love watching F1. I do wish they'd open up the regs more to see everyones different solution to the same problem on a wider scale (it was there this year, but hidden away in brake ducts, DDRS, and exhaust pipes, McLaren and their nose was the biggest visible one)

The three series I always do my best to watch any given weekend are V8 Supercars, F1, and ALMS/WEC or any 24hr race. I'll watch IndyCar if its on, and always the 500, but other than the big one i could live w/o it, NASCAR gives me something to watch if nothing else is on but tbh its the only form of racing i find particularly boring. Sure there can be a lot of passing and the likelihood of winning by 30s or a minute is slim, especially compared to F1, but I don't find it to be exciting.

[Born Racer]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

They clearly didn't possess it and probably shouldn't have been propelled into F1 in the first place.

Mika Hakkinen? (Failed miserably would be overstating it though).