[WEC] LMP Future Regulations (was Le Mans EVO rules - now hypercar rules)

[carbsmith]

None of those count to major manufacturers looking for a minimum number of major manufacturers to race against though.

[Akrapovic]

The article didn’t say “major”. It said “any”.

Whilst things aren’t looking full of sunshine, the article just ignores things in an attempt to make it seem even worse. I’m used to having to read S365 and co carefully, but I expect better from RCE.

[chernaudi]

As I posted on another forum about possible pending rules changes in NASCAR (their Gen 7 car especially), this can be really good, really bad, or, perhaps, indifferent at the end of the day.


But NASCAR and the higher echelons of road racing do seem to have one thing in common, that they're at a bit of a cross road and change is needed to stop the stagnation.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by chernaudi

As I posted on another forum about possible pending rules changes in NASCAR (their Gen 7 car especially), this can be really good, really bad, or, perhaps, indifferent at the end of the day.


But NASCAR and the higher echelons of road racing do seem to have one thing in common, that they're at a bit of a cross road and change is needed to stop the stagnation.

That is also true.

[carbsmith]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

The article didn’t say “major”. It said “any”.

Whilst things aren’t looking full of sunshine, the article just ignores things in an attempt to make it seem even worse. I’m used to having to read S365 and co carefully, but I expect better from RCE.

Well if you want to get down to it, Glickenhaus has sold maybe 3 cars to date. I don't know if those have actually been built and delivered (and in the meantime until the 004 comes out they're building nothing), otherwise they're only a manufacturer in theory so much as present reality. Ginetta is far more of a manufacturer than Glickenhaus and the FIA doesn't even count them as one.

Even putting that aside, check the wording again

there have been no statements of intent from any motor manufacturer that sat at the table

That's referring specifically to the manufacturers that participated in the regulation meetings and are thus ostensibly who the rules were made for, and the article is about the domino effect or lack thereof between that group.

[GingerPixel]

TLDR for the Racecar Engineering article:

We don't know whats going on.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Well if you want to get down to it, Glickenhaus has sold maybe 3 cars to date. I don't know if those have actually been built and delivered (and in the meantime until the 004 comes out they're building nothing), otherwise they're only a manufacturer in theory so much as present reality. Ginetta is far more of a manufacturer than Glickenhaus and the FIA doesn't even count them as one.

Even putting that aside, check the wording again

That's referring specifically to the manufacturers that participated in the regulation meetings and are thus ostensibly who the rules were made for, and the article is about the domino effect or lack thereof between that group.

So far we’ve delivered 5 003’s
In 2019 we’ll build and deliver about 5 more.
In 2019 we’ll build and deliver 5 Glickenhaus Boots.
In 2020 we’ll build and deliver 30 004’s including GT3 race versions.
In 2020 we’ll build and deliver at least 20 Glickenhaus Boots.
In 2021 we’ll build and deliver a lot of 004’s/Boots/ and start delivering
006’s.
All of the above have been paid for or have firm deposits.
We’re building a new factory that will have productive capacity of 750 cars per year.
We’re making our models fully world wide compliant.
More info at Glickenhaus.racing
Our Road Legal Glickenhaus Boot will Race The Baja 1000 in 2019.
Our 003 will race The Ring in 2019.
Our GT3 004 will race in 2020.
Our GT 4 006 will race in 2021.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Napolis

So far we’ve delivered 5 003’s
In 2019 we’ll build and deliver about 5 more.
In 2019 we’ll build and deliver 5 Glickenhaus Boots.
In 2020 we’ll build and deliver 30 004’s including GT3 race versions.
In 2020 we’ll build and deliver at least 20 Glickenhaus Boots.
In 2021 we’ll build and deliver a lot of 004’s/Boots/ and start delivering
006’s.
All of the above have been paid for or have firm deposits.
We’re building a new factory that will have productive capacity of 750 cars per year.
We’re making our models fully world wide compliant.
More info at Glickenhaus.racing
Our Road Legal Glickenhaus Boot will Race The Baja 1000 in 2019.
Our 003 will race The Ring in 2019.
Our GT3 004 will race in 2020.
Our GT 4 006 will race in 2021.

lol we're almost reaching lambo aventador production/deliveries numbers....
any exotic cars manufacturer in the world manages to produce so many cars per year. Just think about pagani who barely could build about 20 huayra per year.

BTW, what's glickenhaus wealth source? as far I know he only directed low budget b-movies in his career

[chernaudi]

On the lighter side of things, I hope that the new cars do look somewhat better than a lot of what's out there now. Aside from the current sprint spec Toyota and the Rebellion Oreca, there's not a lot of good looking LMP1s out there.


Not even Victoria Justice (the woman in my avatar) sitting on them like she is on that Mustang can make them look good.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by canaglia

lol we're almost reaching lambo aventador production/deliveries numbers....
any exotic cars manufacturer in the world manages to produce so many cars per year. Just think about pagani who barely could build about 20 huayra per year.

BTW, what's glickenhaus wealth source? as far I know he only directed low budget b-movies in his career

004CS will have over 800 HP.
It will have 7 Sp transverse gear box.
It’s aero will be beyond ANY road legal car.
Unlike the Aventador there will be a GT3 Version that will be VERY close to it’s road legal sister.
It will have front central drivers seat and 2 rear passenger seats.
The firm pre orders we have make us believe we’lll easily be able to sell 100 per year. Base MSRP $460k. Fully loaded CS $600K.
The new Hypercar LMP 1’s will look a lot prettier than current ones more GT 1.

[Napolis]

FYI

Our customers 2018 003CS which is fully road legal and registered in NYS with a real licence Plate will be at The Miami Councors and The New York Auto Show.

SCG has Authorized dealers in 21 US States with more to come as well as European Dealers.

Our 003C will be back at the Ring starting with VLN 1.

Our Glickenhaus Race Boot will be racing The 2019 Baja 1000 and 4 Glickenhaus road Boots will be there pre-running and following the Race.

If any of you are at those events please say hello.

Best

Jim

[Akrapovic]

Jim, if, for example, I had money, could I phone you an order one of your vehicles?

If the answer is yes, then this ticks the box of manufacturer more than the Ford GT does, frankly.

[deggis]

Originally Posted by carbsmith

Even putting that aside, check the wording again

That's referring specifically to the manufacturers that participated in the regulation meetings and are thus ostensibly who the rules were made for, and the article is about the domino effect or lack thereof between that group.

A moot point, because in the subheadline it says: "Not a single team or manufacturer has uttered a word". If they aren't a team either, what are they then.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

Jim, if, for example, I had money, could I phone you an order one of your vehicles?

If the answer is yes, then this ticks the box of manufacturer more than the Ford GT does, frankly.

Yes. Build slots are allocated on the basis of first signed contracts with deposits.
As of today we can sell you an 003 for 2020 delivery. An 004 for 2021 delivery. (2020 004’s sold out) A Boot for 2020 delivery. (Going fast)
Fully US legal. Today. ( 49 state California being worked on)
Easily UK SVA legal.
Soon Euro/TUF Legal.
Full Euro low volume approval engineering almost complete.
Much less BS than for a new Ford GT for example.

[Akrapovic]

For me, that ticks a box as a legit manufacturer who will sell you a road car version of a race car.

Meanwhile, if I try and buy a Ford GT, Ford will try and block it with legal action: http://www.thedrive.com/news/18530/j...d-up-paperwork

[CTD]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

For me, that ticks a box as a legit manufacturer who will sell you a road car version of a race car.

Meanwhile, if I try and buy a Ford GT, Ford will try and block it with legal action: http://www.thedrive.com/news/18530/j...d-up-paperwork

To be fair, I have seen a new Ford GT driving in Denmark with a wheelchair on the roof

And no that is not a photoshop!
The owner is Jason Watt a danish racing driver who broke is spine in a motorcycle accident, but keeps his passion for fast cars.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by CTD

To be fair, I have seen a new Ford GT driving in Denmark with a wheelchair on the roof

And no that is not a photoshop!
The owner is Jason Watt a danish racing driver who broke is spine in a motorcycle accident, but keeps his passion for fast cars.

Good stuff.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by Akrapovic

For me, that ticks a box as a legit manufacturer who will sell you a road car version of a race car.

Meanwhile, if I try and buy a Ford GT, Ford will try and block it with legal action: http://www.thedrive.com/news/18530/j...d-up-paperwork

ford gt customers policy is too exaggerdatedly restrictive; basically you can't even try to buy the car and if you're one of the chosen you can't sell it before 2-3 years by contract.
Anyway every manufacturer has these restrictive rules for their biggest guns.... at example all planned laferrari chassis were sold already by 2011;

I know about an italian businessman who owned and still owns something like 8 ferrari's (he has been part of 599xx program too) and he tried everything he could to catch one but got only slammed doors in his face by ferrari.
Aside that, only 4-5 luxury car dealerships around the world can sell "second-hand" laferrari, and only after ferrari leave.

Basically you don't buy a ford gt/laferrari, you buy the right to drive it

[TF110]

Amidst all this, we have a person/team/car ready (almost) to go for the new rules and it's not one of the 'big boys'. That's a win imo.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by canaglia

lol we're almost reaching lambo aventador production/deliveries numbers....
any exotic cars manufacturer in the world manages to produce so many cars per year. Just think about pagani who barely could build about 20 huayra per year.

BTW, what's glickenhaus wealth source? as far I know he only directed low budget b-movies in his career

If you're relying on that information for his net worth then you're only considering a tiny portion of his money. The big and real money is in his financier side of the business with his family. The movies seem to be more like the cars, something fun on the side to engage his interests

[RedSquirrel]

Something I noticed the other day in the draft 2020 regs.
3.8.3 Criteria
The aerodynamic coefficients must fulfil the following criteria regardless of the car's attitude
Efficiency Criterion: 4.00


Does that mean lift/drag of no better than 4:1?
The Audi R8 in 2002 had an L/D at Le Mans of 4.42:1.
If we go back to the early nineties, with the huge diffusers and twin plane rear wings,the TS010 was at 5.8:1 at Le Mans.
Even a crude, slapped together Dome wind tunnel model from 2011 was at 4.10:1.
Every time I come around to thinking that the new rules will be alright something like this comes along and puts me off again.



(L/D figures from here: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.html )

[deggis]

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...r-involvement/

Oreca is interested.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by RedSquirrel

Something I noticed the other day in the draft 2020 regs.
3.8.3 Criteria
The aerodynamic coefficients must fulfil the following criteria regardless of the car's attitude
Efficiency Criterion: 4.00


Does that mean lift/drag of no better than 4:1?
The Audi R8 in 2002 had an L/D at Le Mans of 4.42:1.
If we go back to the early nineties, with the huge diffusers and twin plane rear wings,the TS010 was at 5.8:1 at Le Mans.
Even a crude, slapped together Dome wind tunnel model from 2011 was at 4.10:1.
Every time I come around to thinking that the new rules will be alright something like this comes along and puts me off again.



(L/D figures from here: http://www.mulsannescorner.com/data.html )

Our 003C has a 4/1 ratio which with a real 2 seater windshield as HyperCars have is about as high as you’re going to get.

[Napolis]

Originally Posted by deggis

https://sportscar365.com/lemans/wec/...r-involvement/

Oreca is interested.

We too have been approached for customer cars and will offer them.
Having some experience with Hybrids, we won an FIA Cup for Alternative Energies with our Engineering Partner Podium with P 4/5 CM plan to develop a Hybrid system that we will also offer for sale.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Napolis

Our 003C has a 4/1 ratio which with a real 2 seater windshield as HyperCars have is about as high as you’re going to get.

I'm not a big fan of the wide cockpit look on prototypes but if the cars are 2m wide they might be a little more bearable