BBC - Webber had broken shoulder for last 4 races

[deeks6]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

Seems to be fashionable to release books about finishing a distant third in the championship.

This is the one you release when you finish a distant 17th ...



http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...p6690648dt.jpg



Apparently JPM is only allowed the crayons not the textas ...

[E.B]

Well Mark himself said that he "does not feel that the injury was an excuse for not making the grade in the end."

I know it was 'only' a hairline fracture deep inside the bone, but none the less with constantly changing G forces, both positive and negative, it would, one would imagine, grab your attention. And those cortisone jabs are not pleasant in themselves

It seems that (understandably) the team are officially '****ed off' that Mark chose to keep it a secret from the team. I would imagine that Mark may well have not told them in case of it affecting any Mark favouring decision re the team orders that everyone was suggesting should have gone Mark's way, but the team (rightfully as it turned out) chose not to employ.

Had the team known of Mark's injury, despite the fact it was not seen by the FIA doctor as anything major, it might have influenced any decision in the team orders area to actually go against Mark. Indeed he may well have not told the team fearing that they would in fact use the information and call the team orders shots in Vettel's favour over the matter.

With opinion suggesting it made no difference to his performance, I am sure that team members, as with many of us here, would likely have been of the opinion it must have made a difference in some way even if his usual speed was not affected unduly. What is interesting and indeed fortunate, is that the Korean accident (a double hit in effect, given the initial wall impact anf then the Rosberg broadside hit did not compound the shoulder injury, or indeed even get noticed in the post crash medical he would have undertaken. (Thinking about that, if the FIA Doctor knew of the injury anyway.....)

Fortunately given his recent record with bikes, RBR have banned (or shall we say strongly recommended against riding) Mountain Bikes. Ironic that we have now seen most of the driver injuries in the past few years that are of a serious nature have been caused by training accidents rather than in the cockpit of a race car.

Here is a quote from Horner himself on the issue.

Horner said that there was no visible drop off in Webber’s performance to suggest an injury and he didn’t suspect anything

“I didn’t even know about the book, let alone the shoulder,” Horner said.

“It is obviously disappointing that Mark said nothing. It was an injury that did not appear to have any effect on his performance but all the same it would have been nice to know about it.”

It is unlikely that Webber will go anywhere near a mountain bike again while he is still racing, but just in case he was tempted, Horner has issued a stong warning to steer clear, “Our drivers have an obligation to make sure they are fit, ” he said. “It seems bikes don’t agree with Mark so maybe it would be better if he stayed away from them.”

Of course the cynics amongst us might suggest that, in the absence of a WDC title upon which the book launch might have been launched, the shoulder fracture is being used as a lead in from the media to maximise the PR opportunity of selling his newly released book......

Whether by intent or not, It has certainly worked in that respect with every article on the shoulder injury that I have seen has very quickly bought up a reference, availability and title of his new book. (I was not even aware of a book on its way until this shoulder news broke, as seems the case with most of the F1 world.)

Regardless of any side issues this might bring up it was clearly not a performance enhancing injury, and is another episode of 'bravery, and courage' to be added to the image of tenacity historically bestowed on Mr "AussieGrit". (I think that is his Twitter nic)

One potential downside of the secrecy from Mark to the team over the injury does imply that there is still a huge breakdown in communication, and indeed trust with 'that' side of the garage, and after the tensions within the team during the second half of the season, we may well be set for another year of simmering tension within the RBR ranks! The fact that he still did not mention it to the team even post season, leaving them to discover the news by reading his book (that they did not know about being launched) is one thing I dont understand.

Maybe Mark thought it might be seen as making excuses over his 'choking' when the season got to its climax. The fact that the team and media would find out so soon after the season anyway through the book makes that decision even more odd, and is a golden opportunity for Webber detractors to put forward as an excuse for his 'failure' to match his teamate and win the WDC. Mark, perhaps more than anyone, (after the Silverstone nose change bizzo that RBR failed to tell Mark or Sebastian of) should understand the importance of honest communication with the team.

Of course using the term failure is all relative.... The reality is he still performed above expection this year and some of his performances were clearly indicative of his abilities. Even though he was beaten ultimately fairly soundly by his teamate, any year in which a '#2' driver amasses 4 wins, 10 podiums, 5 pole positions and 3 fastest laps can never be said to be a failure.

[Super Hans]

News just in: Australian cricket team suffer collective fractured shoulder. "We're not going to use it as an excuse" says Ponting.

[steve_r]

I would have thought Webber would have learnt to stay well clear of mountain bikes after last time!

[Teretonga]

The reaction to the shoulder news and to webbers penchant for mountain biking is just amazing. If kids fall off a bike or a horse the general advice is to get them 'back on the horse/bike/whatever asap....

Now we're suggesting that a couple of accidents are the excuse for wrapping up in cotton wool.

Drivers are by nature risk takers (calculated risk) so it shouldn't be surprising that they also fly helicopters, ride mountain bikes and Moto X bikes, fly hangliders, race go karts or whatever.....

The last thing they want is to be wrapped in cotton wool.
And the idea of a life wrapped in cotton wool out of fear of injury wouyld be anathema to most of them.
We want them to be heroes, take responsibility and be good roll models then we expect them to cave in to fear of injury because they tripped over a mate who had a cycle crash?

[Knowlesy]

Apart from anything else, they are allowed a life.

[Grandpa_Rob]

This has been the best F1 season l can remember seeing and this story just adds to it, I truly hope next season will be as riveting .

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by 1200Datto27

Was the footage of him nearly cleaning up Martin Brundle in Singapore on a mountain bike filmed this year or last?

So the first time he'd been on a bike since his accident was in Japan. So in Singapore two weeks earlier, it was a phantom Mark Webber who tried to take Brundle out then? Scary news - ghost of person not yet dead captured by BBC.

And if he was riding round the track like that when he knew he'd be on camera, how was he riding when him and his friend crashed?

What an idiot.

Not for the first time he failed to inform his employers of a pretty major injury too.

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by ChrisPage

So the first time he'd been on a bike since his accident was in Japan. So in Singapore two weeks earlier, it was a phantom Mark Webber who tried to take Brundle out then? Scary news - ghost of person not yet dead captured by BBC.

As someone else said, riding round the circuit on a bicycle is not the same as proper mountain biking.

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The reaction to the shoulder news and to webbers penchant for mountain biking is just amazing. If kids fall off a bike or a horse the general advice is to get them 'back on the horse/bike/whatever asap....

Now we're suggesting that a couple of accidents are the excuse for wrapping up in cotton wool.

Drivers are by nature risk takers (calculated risk) so it shouldn't be surprising that they also fly helicopters, ride mountain bikes and Moto X bikes, fly hangliders, race go karts or whatever.....

The last thing they want is to be wrapped in cotton wool.
And the idea of a life wrapped in cotton wool out of fear of injury wouyld be anathema to most of them.
We want them to be heroes, take responsibility and be good roll models then we expect them to cave in to fear of injury because they tripped over a mate who had a cycle crash?

Nobody is saying he shouldn't have got back on a bike. We are just saying it was a stupid decision to be riding around at speeds where he could break a shoulder when in the middle of a championship battle. If Webber's dreams of being World Champion wren't important enough to hold off for a few weeks until the end of the season that's his choice, he's a big boy. I'm sure he looks back on the decision with pride.

And in no way could I suggest its a good idea to show the Aussy public that he is Mr Man of Steel (brittle steel mind), racing through the pain barrier with pride and dignity. Not just Mr-Not-Bad-For-A-No2.

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

As someone else said, riding round the circuit on a bicycle is not the same as proper mountain biking.

Seems broken shoulder bones are a common consequence though.

Of course off road riding is much riskier - but obviously from the Brundle footage he's not one to shy away from riding around at high speed and getting in situations where a crash isn't out of the question. On a concrete surface (or what-ever it is). Imagine Brundle hadn't seen him or his reactions weren't quick enough - it could have been a bone-breaker live on camera (that would have been worth seeing Horner's reaction!).

It's his live, to lead as he pleases. But while we may go down the 'how hard and brave to drive with a broken shoulder', I'm sticking with, 'how stupid to put yourself in that position in your one probable shot at the title'.

[Super Hans]

It's not as bad as when Matt Neal hurt his arm falling off a bucking bronco in Sam Jack's in Newcastle, whilst drunk, on the eve of a BTCC meeting.

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

It's not as bad as when Matt Neal hurt his arm falling off a bucking bronco in Sam Jack's in Newcastle, whilst drunk, on the eve of a BTCC meeting.

Granted - its not as daft as that!

Bigger consequences though!

[josvandeperre]

Pitpass remind us again today that they are hearing that "After a season where tensions between Vettel, the team and himself constantly threatened to boil over it's said Webber will leave the Milton Keynes outfit before the 2011 season gets under way."

[jedrinck]

That is a great strategy to improve your standing in a crowd! When I was in the military many moons ago, I broke a digit during a week long exercise which you had to repeat were you to drop out before friday at noon. I slipped on a frozen path and chrushed my middle finger under my rifle. Since it was already friday 0300 am, I chose to keep going for I didn't feel like starting over on the next monday. Call it laziness and the pain was not so bad with all the exhaustion and cold. After the final part, which was lugging a guy on an improvised stretcher through the forest for 3 hours without putting it down (or you start over), blood was dripping from my glove and I was attended to by the paramedics. Of course, everyone saw that and from then on I was the tough guy on campus, just like that! Should I write a book? How I was just within the top 80% of my class because I never studied but I'm not going to use my injury as an excuse for that.

[KateM]

Originally Posted by deeks6

This is the one you release when you finish a distant 17th ...



http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...p6690648dt.jpg



Apparently JPM is only allowed the crayons not the textas ...

I don't think that should have made me laugh as much as it did...

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by ChrisPage

Seems broken shoulder bones are a common consequence though.

Of course off road riding is much riskier - but obviously from the Brundle footage he's not one to shy away from riding around at high speed and getting in situations where a crash isn't out of the question. On a concrete surface (or what-ever it is). Imagine Brundle hadn't seen him or his reactions weren't quick enough - it could have been a bone-breaker live on camera (that would have been worth seeing Horner's reaction!).It's his live, to lead as he pleases. But while we may go down the 'how hard and brave to drive with a broken shoulder', I'm sticking with, 'how stupid to put yourself in that position in your one probable shot at the title'.

Yes but...
We only saw that from the camera angle and on TV. Mark Webber would have planned that from some way back, and have been ready to react to whetever happened. It took us (and Martin Brundle) by surprise.
Let's face it, the guy races in Formula One, I'm sure that his idea of what's exciting/frightening will be at a whole different level to us mere mortals.

[Kempi]

Nobody is saying he shouldn't have got back on a bike. We are just saying it was a stupid decision to be riding around at speeds where he could break a shoulder when in the middle of a championship battle.

That is the same as not getting on a bike. You can fracture just about any bone from your hand to your collar bone just by falling over standing at a traffic light if you do it right (wrong).

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by Kempi

That is the same as not getting on a bike. You can fracture just about any bone from your hand to your collar bone just by falling over standing at a traffic light if you do it right (wrong).

Of course you could get injured standing at traffic lights or doing the hoovering or something, but you're much more likely to get injured mountain biking. It's not for nothing that many sportsmen have conditions in their contracts preventing them from indulging in other sports.

Sport is the number one cause of injury in the UK, fact fans.

[steve_r]

I though Alcholhol related incidents were no.1, but we are going off-topic. It's going to be a long winter if this is the best F1 gossip that we can discuss!

[garcon]

Originally Posted by Super Hans

Does anyone know if it was the shoulder with the chip on?

Sorry, sorry.

I'm late to this thread, but that has to be comedy genius post of the season.

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by steve_r

I though Alcholhol related incidents were no.1, but we are going off-topic. It's going to be a long winter if this is the best F1 gossip that we can discuss!

Possibly trying the sport of rock climbing after alcohol not a good idea then...

[ChrisPage]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

Yes but...
We only saw that from the camera angle and on TV. Mark Webber would have planned that from some way back, and have been ready to react to whetever happened. It took us (and Martin Brundle) by surprise.
Let's face it, the guy races in Formula One, I'm sure that his idea of what's exciting/frightening will be at a whole different level to us mere mortals.

I suppose. My point is he clearly wasn't opposed to pratting about, he was hardly out on a gently ride.

Fair play, its his call, and his alone. But will he look back in years to come and say to him self, 'No Mark, you lost the championship, but you stood by your principles - principles which mean staying of a mountain bike for a few weeks was just not possible'.

Or will he look back and think, 'Oh Mark, you great tit'.

Originally Posted by Kempi

That is the same as not getting on a bike. You can fracture just about any bone from your hand to your collar bone just by falling over standing at a traffic light if you do it right (wrong).

You could jump off the Humber Bridge and survive. And yet simply putting the bins out you could get struck by lightening and be sent to meet your maker. I think the issue is probability rather than possibility. Which of those activities would you rather do?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Teretonga

The reaction to the shoulder news and to webbers penchant for mountain biking is just amazing. If kids fall off a bike or a horse the general advice is to get them 'back on the horse/bike/whatever asap....

Now we're suggesting that a couple of accidents are the excuse for wrapping up in cotton wool.

Whilst i agree with you to a certain extent, the team are also paying their drivers vast amounts of money to be fit and do their job. JPM, when at McLaren wasn't even allowed to play in a tennis tournament.

[Hubble]

But to be fit and maintain their alertness they need to exercise......and cycling IS a great form of exercise.......good cardio workout, low impact on joints, fresh air, and a lot less dull than running........

You could fall over and break a bone walking from the supermarket to the car with your shopping.........