Formula 1 glamour.... WHAT HAPPENED

[chunder]

I remember reading quotes form Chapman saying that on Mario's car they could adjust things minutely and he would know.

On Ronnie's they could almost put the rear brakes on the front and the tyres and he would probably lap as fast!

Anyone who has raced can relate to this, you are either one or the other after time!!

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by chunder

Anyone who has raced can relate to this, you are either one or the other after time!!

It's quite odd that Andretti should be considered the more 'sensitive' driver, since he was also used to racing many other forms of American sports cars that didn't really respond to 'fine tuning' in the same way that F1 cars did. Peterson, on the other hand, spent most of his time in 'European' open wheelers.

[chunder]

I think the deal was with MArio that maybe he had to drive some of those cras in the US a certain way!

I would imagine a midget or sprint car didnt have as much adjustment as they do now, so the chance to change things and have the confidence to know what you are doing would show teams he had an inate ability

[wnut]

Originally Posted by ASCII Man

He probably means having more power than the tires can handle, so they have to squeeze the throttle instead of flooring it and letting the engine mapping software do the squeezing.

Besides, I seriously doubt todays drivers have more technical skill than a Jack Brabham, for example.

That is what I mean.

The whole point is to try and bring good drivers back as a factor in the racing. If the engines have the ability to overpower the tyres then the engines are no longer the be all and end all of the racing. Similarly if you simply do not have much down force then the race is not about who can generate the most horsepower to provide the most down force from a small engine.
This will make the engine technology cheaper and the racing better.
Formula cars should be about relatively light and very responsive cars with big horsepower and provide brilliant drivers with a platform to showcase their talents.
There are certainly highly skilled modern drivers, but the cars they are forced to race are pathetic racing cars, and this is supposed to be the pinnacle of racing, which is just not happening, all we get to see are time trials! Open class production motorcycle racing in cars should be what F1 is attempting to replicate. Big horsepower, low grip and mega action!

[duke_toaster]

More power less grip is certainly one way of doing things, perhaps using the proposed 2013 rules but increasing the power to maintain current lap times.

[E.B]

Originally Posted by duke_toaster

More power less grip is certainly one way of doing things, perhaps using the proposed 2013 rules but increasing the power to maintain current lap times.

Hehehehe.... maybe they should look at an increase in bhp by means of stipulating a minimum of say 900bhp..... Well they have increased the mandatory minimum weight, so it would only be fair. It seems F1 is only exciting when the cars have had a minimum 900 bhp.

[Marbot]

Some of the dullest racing ever occured when F1 cars had more than 900bhp, I seem to remember.

[chunder]

I am not sure what the answer is really.

The turbo era was amazing from a fan's point of view. The cars were amazing to watch and listen to.

But thee was a huge dispenations between say a McLaren Ltus and Williams and a Zakspeed or RAM. Those cars were driven by lesser drivers anyway despit4e being seconds a lap slower for a start.

but watching a Brundle or Danner or Nannini in a Minardi still let you appreciate the art of a racer.

Far better than the Scalextric machines of today, that look so easy to drive you could literally step straight from Formula Renault into one, oh wait a minute...

[Wims]

Originally Posted by chunder

...

Far better than the Scalextric machines of today, that look so easy to drive you could literally step straight from Formula Renault into one, oh wait a minute...

Those kids have been racing cars all their lives tho, its not like how it was 20 years ago. It may look easy, but someone like you or me would crash it right away if we started to push.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Wims

Those kids have been racing cars all their lives tho, its not like how it was 20 years ago. It may look easy, but someone like you or me would crash it right away if we started to push.

In the 60s many drivers like Jack Brabham, Jim Clark, Graham Hill, Jackie Stewart and Jochen Rindt, Denny Hulme and Bruce McClaren drove F1, F2, F3 Group 5 sports cars and production cars with Indy, Le Mans, Can Am and the Tasman series to keep them busy! Often several categories in one weekend and all there own testing. Many like Bruce McLaren, Mark Donahue were extremely gifted engineers.

The penalties for getting it wrong landed you in a box, and this is why many of their careers were cut short.

These men were gifted and extremely dedicated "racing drivers" who would have competed easily with the modern time trial specialist drivers in todays cars.

The modern drivers in yesteryears cars would have to learn how to race one another for a start, and get used to the fact that small errors got you killed or maimed ... so I for one am not so sure they would be competitive....

Still the real issue is that an F1 car should accelerate, brake and change direction faster than any other vehicle on the planet. It is this ability that should allow them to run in close company and exploit even the smallest mistake from another driver.

[old man]

Much as some of us would like to we can't go back, we can't un-invent technology. The designers will push the technology in the envelope of the rules and smooth efficient handling is always likely to be the quickest. Great power to grip ratios will need more skill to control but it is likely that smooth control will win races but not provide the spectacle that is being recalled here. Stirling Moss was one of the greatest ever but he was never really spectacular, nor was Jimmy Clark.

Today's drivers have to cope with more technology at their fingertips than Gilles who grew up in snow racing. If you want to see a car drift through a corner you need to watch historics, if you want sliding there is a class that is aimed at just that but it is not drifting as I remember it. There are many drivers who race for fun and many who race anything with wheels but to do it they have to be either rich or a skilled negotiator, but again that is not really new. To win in any type of car, to be quick straight out of the box, to be "on the pace" immediately is a measure of the driver. Sadly contracts today (and 20 Grand Prix) stop us measuring that in the likes of Hamilton or Vettel but I doubt the top guys would be found lacking

The glamour is still there, take a new punter to any big race meeting and that is what they see whereas those of us who have been around a while are used to it. The 2013 ideas look interesting but winning has always been about applied technology and always will be, for me that is one of the fascinations

[wnut]

Watching F1 motor racing is kind of like buying a used lemon that has been crashed off a used car dealer's car lot.
All the glitz and glamour of a good paint job covering up a dodgy product.

[Wims]

Originally Posted by wnut

Watching F1 motor racing is kind of like buying a used lemon that has been crashed off a used car dealer's car lot.
All the glitz and glamour of a good paint job covering up a dodgy product.

Why do you even watch it if you hate it so much. I cant remember a single positive comment about F1 from you. Why dont you just let it go and do something you enjoy instead. I dont get it. Maybe you just like the pain

[old man]

Originally Posted by wnut

Still the real issue is that an F1 car should accelerate, brake and change direction faster than any other vehicle on the planet. It is this ability that should allow them to run in close company and exploit even the smallest mistake from another driver.

Really wnut, do you not think that the modern F1 car does exactly that? I am often amazed by their ability to change direction, the braking power is what prevents a lot more overtaking and surely the acceleration is better than any formula outside drag racing, particularly considering engine size limits.

I cannot agree with your "dodgy product" comment. Often in life people who are nearest to something see all the warts and none of the good bits and after the last season I think F1 at the moment has many good bits b ut anything can be improved, we should just be careful not to throw the baby out as it were.