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12 Jul 2012, 18:40 (Ref:3105707) | #1 | |||||||
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The Great Shake-Up of 2012/13
With 3 series in full on crisis mode, it seems inevitable that the European GT and Sportscar landscape will change quite a bit over the off season.
Instead of polluting other threads with this, here's one to speculate on what will happen. Here's my take. (From a non-DSC subscriber... might be that I am missing some crucial information) From Marcel ten Caat: Quote:
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Jesus Pareja/GTSport will take over promotion of ELMS, that actually makes a lot of sense, especially with Speed Euroseries out of the picture and the ongoing rift between Ratel and the ACO. Then: SPEED Euroseries leaving the ELMS package has to be motivated and since it is a for-the-drivers rather than a for-the-fans series, I doubt that it is for greater exposure (where would that be found anyway?). So I guess the SPEED guys are a little miffed. Why would that be? ELMS wanting to raid their field would seem like a good reason to be miffed, wouldn't it? Notice also how the ACO-website had an article about Oreca's new CN-car and how the usually superbly informed guys at Endurance Info talk about how CN could be ELMS's savior. Now what's gonna happen with GT-Open? My guess: Nothing. The teams in GT-Open race there because they like the product, and the product is 'Sprint races and overall victories for GT-cars', which happens to be exactly the oppossite of what ELMS would have to offer. If ELMS were attractive for these teams, they'd already be racing there. Maybe the ACO will give a LM-autobid for the best GTE-team, it's really the least they can do to thank Parejas for taking the ELMS problem from their shoulders. So where's ELMS getting its GTs from? Nowhere, there just aren't enough around. They won't need them where they are going. ELMS is going to become International Sportscar Open for P2s, PCs and CNs. Running on the same weekends as GT-Open (on some really attractive tracks, which was a major fault of this year's calender) and probably with shorter race distances as to not block all the best time of the weekend on Sunday afternoon. I could see them doing one 3 hour race. Or maybe two 2 hour races, but no longer 1000k. Not that anyone really cares, but where is Speed Euroseries going? Not a lot of possibilities for that. My best guess: Blancpain. Number of races is about right, good tracks and so far very light on support races. And I mean, what other place to go would be left for them? GT-Open? Not if Parejas is in charge of raiding their grids. Ratel's sprint circus? Too much uncertainty at this point, they'll want to secure a partner series early on, that isn't in the cards with GT1, if it even happens. DTM? WTCC? DTM is light in support races as well, but it's probably too Germany-centric to be attractive for most SES-teams. WTCC might have an outside shot at it as well, but... eh, I just don't think so. Edit: Seems like already got one thing wrong... From Marcel ten Caat again: Quote:
BES is obviously king for now. As for the rest... who knows. My most likely scenario: One European sprint championship for GT3s or nothing, the GT-WC is done with the deadlines being what they are right now. Last edited by Speed-King; 12 Jul 2012 at 19:02. |
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12 Jul 2012, 21:10 (Ref:3105761) | #2 | |
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how about this: lmp2, cn, gt3 (no elms and gt3 europe anymore). Couple european rounds on blancpain circuits, like monza, silverstone, spa (could be a longer event like 12h)....
who will be with wtcc? speed es? thats a european championship no? Last edited by lms; 12 Jul 2012 at 21:19. |
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12 Jul 2012, 22:07 (Ref:3105802) | #3 | ||
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I'm glad you started this thread, it's been something that has been on my mind lately. Surely the current situation is unsustainable and some consolidation is necessary. Hopefully egos can be put aside and some common sense can be displayed in the way series are set up. Unfortunately that is easier said than done. I imagine that we won't see gt1 or ELMS back next year in their current form. Some interesting comments tweeted by Marcel Ten Caat today regarding Reiter Engineering.
"We would prefer to continue in a professional championship like this rather than step down to an amateur series such as Blancpain or try to do WEC which costs a fortune" |
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12 Jul 2012, 22:25 (Ref:3105813) | #4 | |||
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There seems to be very little positive news for next year with anything thing to do with motorsport. Manufacturers seem to be jumping off where they can due to money! Nothing is sacred these days. |
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12 Jul 2012, 22:28 (Ref:3105815) | #5 | |||
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I'm quite excited that European racing is going through its own mini-recession. It will come back in 2013 streamlined and I for one will be glad to see Parejas in charge of what was the ELMS and hopefully the International Sports Car Open and International GT Open do get FIA recognition and can grow their media platform to make it easier for me to take in their products. (Unfortunately, SPEED2 might scuttle my ability to take in those products unless my cable provider and SPEED choose to recognize that one and the other exists.) Chris |
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13 Jul 2012, 06:04 (Ref:3105888) | #6 | ||||
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Hmm.... CNs at Salzburg. Quote:
a) as mentioned above: not blocking all the prime time. Within the IGTO package, ELMS would no longer be the sole headliner, so they can't hog all the prime time slots on the weekend schedule and a 6 hour races effectively does that. b) Small fields are a lot more bearable when the races don't go on forever. I think even being optimistic, a 20 car field for ISCO would be a great success. I can watch that for two hours, no problem. But if I have to watch the same 20 cars droning around for 6 hours on end my nerves may get just a little frayed towards the end. Maybe doubling the IGTO's distances would work: 140 minutes on Saturday, 100 minutes on Sunday. I just hope Pareja doesn't bring his stupid time penalties on pitstops to the prototype ranks. It's bad enough that they do it in GT-Open. Really messes up the flow of the races. |
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13 Jul 2012, 23:06 (Ref:3106196) | #7 | ||
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13 Jul 2012, 23:20 (Ref:3106199) | #8 | ||
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Too many championships, too few teams.
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14 Jul 2012, 03:10 (Ref:3106224) | #9 | ||
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Having the ELMS moving to the GT Open calendar sounds great at the first time. But I must warn you that GT Sport has dropped in the past years several championships that didn't work or lost manufacturer backing.
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14 Jul 2012, 05:56 (Ref:3106245) | #10 | ||
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Ceterum censeo GTE-Am esse delendam. |
14 Jul 2012, 11:32 (Ref:3106309) | #11 | |
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14 Jul 2012, 12:44 (Ref:3106327) | #12 | |
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You know I've kinda lost interest to European sportscar racing, outside Le Mans... old FIA GT Euro is dead and buried, new FIA GT is a joke, LMS is in terrible shape, VLN has gone more to the GT3 route, and most of the smaller series and national champs have either been folded as well or invaded by the same boring GT3s you see at every other championship. French GT for example... it's like any other series now. I guess there is IGTO but there is something about that series which makes me always lose interest after a round or two
Still, I too think that they key word for the future of European scenery is: merge, merge, merge |
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14 Jul 2012, 13:29 (Ref:3106347) | #13 | |
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there are a couple good gt championships, like adac gt, gt open and of course blancpain.
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14 Jul 2012, 16:18 (Ref:3106385) | #14 | |
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The teams at Donington have given their backing to Patrick Peters stewardship but it's been acknolwedged he needs support on the admin and organisational front.
Meanwhile SRO have put plans forward to merge their GT1 and GT3 series. |
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15 Jul 2012, 22:04 (Ref:3106827) | #15 | ||
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As far as I know, GT Sport dropped the Mini Challenge, Peugeot 207 Cup and Supercopa Seat León.
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Nitropteron - Fly fast or get crushed! by NaBUrean Prodooktionz naburu38.itch.io |
15 Jul 2012, 22:22 (Ref:3106835) | #16 | |||
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Quote:
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Entire team is babies. |
16 Jul 2012, 14:34 (Ref:3107216) | #17 | |
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Have no choice really though do they when they are dipping below 15 entries in three of those series, even GTO is hovering at the 20 mark.
It was notable the boss of the ACO turned up in person at Donington yesterday for crisis talks and reafirmed the series will continue into 2013, I'd like to hear feedback from teams, drivers and those organising things |
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17 Jul 2012, 14:49 (Ref:3107592) | #18 | ||
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In my opinion, the ELMS should be buried after this season. The GTE cars have GT Open or WEC to compete there. As for the prototypes, I think a sprint series of one-hour races is suits LMP2 better than a set of endurance races (current ELMS) next to another set of endurance races (WEC).
But as for GT racing in general, I think that market logic should apply here. We have currently an oversupply of international GT series, but we also see currently how the market sorts itself out. If all goes well, we have Blancpain and GT Open as the only international GT series in Europe. Maybe the FIA should reassign the European GT3 Championship as a series of selected races from the national championships, too. Such a series may not attract a large field, but still professional entrants that may provide an attraction for the various GT series. I think British GT would give everything for an entry bei Reiter Engineering for example. |
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17 Jul 2012, 15:28 (Ref:3107598) | #19 | |||
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17 Jul 2012, 15:40 (Ref:3107601) | #20 | |||
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It is important that there is a series where these cars can be raced during the year in order to have a platform to draw from when inviting teams for Le Mans, but the exact format of that series is totally meaningless in the greater scheme of things. The series has to suit the customers, and if 6hour enduros don't do it and 1hour sprints do it, then so be it. The customers of almost every feeder series in the world are the drivers, not the fans, and whatever they want is where the series has to go. |
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17 Jul 2012, 17:01 (Ref:3107620) | #21 | |||
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2. A base of entrants for WEC and LM. 3. A fall back when WEC manufacturer P1 support eventually fails. |
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17 Jul 2012, 17:24 (Ref:3107630) | #22 | |||||||
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If there is a demand for multiclass mixed fields endurance racing there will be a series.If there isn't... GTE teams have voted with their feed not to race in ELMS and without GTs there can't be an ELMS in the stricter sense of the word. That doesn't mean that there won't be a place to race prototypes, but perhaps it is time for the moment to forget about trying to emulate ALMS and to be a headliner type series, but to switch to a sprint(-ish) format and try to rebuilt from there - maybe as a part of other, more attractive race weekends. Race at events with built in crowds like Truck GP, DTM Norisring or F3 Masters at Zandvoort. |
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17 Jul 2012, 17:29 (Ref:3107634) | #23 | ||
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Where has it been suggested by entrants of LMP2 or GTE cars that they want sprint formats?
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17 Jul 2012, 17:46 (Ref:3107638) | #24 | |||
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World Championship because it has the prestige - GT-Open because??? The concept of ELMS was to bring back the 'classical' and 'glorious' 1000k races of the past, and this is what the series' success was based on. Now that the classical and glorious races are with WEC, ELMS's biggest sales point (apart from the LM-entries, maybe, but even that has been undermined by WEC) is gone. Trundling around in the back of the field for 6 hours in an absolutely meaningless race with hardly any audience or media coverage doesn't sound all that attractive to me, does it? With shorter races you have lower costs (GT-Open is suppossedly a GREAT bang for the buck) and at least a chance to get into packages with a built in audience. |
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17 Jul 2012, 17:49 (Ref:3107640) | #25 | ||
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So the conclusion is the length of race is the issue, not the media package, not the tracks, not the current management, not the entry fee costs?
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