V8ST - 2014/15

[promax]

Originally Posted by mikuni

I agree with you socram.

I went to the V8SC round at Pukekohe, and amongst the fans were a number of SC fans who just couldn't understand (nor care) why there were 2 different NZ V8 touring car races with similar looking cars, yet they weren't out there together. I began explaning how it came about, and that the first field were actually V8 "Super Tourers". It was about the time when they zoned out and began to go blank when I realised quite how rediculous the whole thing is.

Having both at Pukekohe should have made everyone realise how embarrassing the situation is, and stupid they are for not only putting themselves in this position, but for continuing it.

had the same exact conversation at the GP

[Dav1s]

Originally Posted by mikuni

I agree with you socram.

I went to the V8SC round at Pukekohe, and amongst the fans were a number of SC fans who just couldn't understand (nor care) why there were 2 different NZ V8 touring car races with similar looking cars, yet they weren't out there together.

I personally would love to fork out a few hundred $$ to take the family to Pukekohe to watch a grid of Falcons and Commodores, then enjoy the next race where grid of different Falcons and Commodores will line up, then after that race enjoy the spectacle of some more Falcons and Commodores doing battle. Then incase that isnt enough excitement we could enjoy Falcon utes race against Commodore utes.

Give or take the odd Volvo, Toyota and Nissan here and there too.


Aside from classic racing and endurance racing, its very hard to wander through the pits and find anything interesting to look at in this corner of the world!

No wonder paying spectators arent showing up to local events, which are watered down versions of what is explained above.

[Sidewayz]

Another attempt on Facebook by v8st to make themselves look.... Like idiots. Well done guys

[promax]

Originally Posted by Sidewayz

Another attempt on Facebook by v8st to make themselves look.... Like idiots. Well done guys

didn't we go through this 2 weeks ago??

[Sidewayz]

Originally Posted by promax

didn't we go through this 2 weeks ago??

Yes, but they have done it again!!

[Biggy G]

These guys might be good at business, but who the hell is having the final say here and going; yep, publishing this is a good idea....

[promax]

I haven't read it and I don't plan on reading it not sure who is running the st facebook page.. but these open letters doesn't make anyone look good :/

[Sidewayz]

Originally Posted by promax

I haven't read it and I don't plan on reading it not sure who is running the st facebook page.. but these open letters doesn't make anyone look good :/

They think by publishing these stories and trying to drag other people through the mud, that they'll come out smelling like roses.
News flash guys. The first one failed and the second will to.

[promax]

well if BNT and the like decides to up and leave the series.. ST will only have themselves to blame.

feel sorry for the teams talking to potential sponsors.. while all this bs is going on

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by Sidewayz

Another attempt on Facebook by v8st to make themselves look.... Like idiots. Well done guys

I think the only idiot here is Harris. Interesting that he would ban himself from his own championship...

On sober reflection he might see that email as a bad idea

[raymond]

Originally Posted by socram

Just to clarify my own take on both at the same meeting. Even if there are two half empty grids, they are only half way to an attractive solution.

One grid, two classes is no big deal ('Class' racing has been going since Brookland's days, so there is nothing new there) and that means room on the programme for another decent grid, preferably of vehicles that don't look like the main game.

Twice as many cars for the spectators, twice as much paid in entry fees (presumably) and a better chance of a profit, twice the enjoyment for all, or am I missing something?

If almost any two day classic meeting these days can attract over 200 cars, then surely it isn't too much to ask that anything purporting to be a senior meeting matches or exceeds that?

The only hiccup I see is that even our upgraded tracks don't seem to have designed the pits complexes to cope with large grids, which seems a wee bit short sighted!

In the case of Pukekohe, the millions poured into the track seem to have shrunk the paddock for most decent meetings, just to cater for one meeting a year, which also seems a bit short-sighted, given that surely they had access to the so called brains in the sport?

Shared GRID Ray, not meeting

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Sidewayz

They think by publishing these stories and trying to drag other people through the mud, that they'll come out smelling like roses.
News flash guys. The first one failed and the second will to.

Really? You may be a MSNZ lackey Sidewayz but I think that email just made a monkey out of Mr Harris in particular - which is unsurprising if you will recall his radio interview at the start of the whole ST thing a couple of years back.

I am in agreement with everyone that there should be a single V8 grid (not including utes) with multiple classes, but for Harris & co. to come out and try to force the issue is nothing short of stupid. But then again, I guess it wouldn't be the first time they have shot from the hip, would it?

Let's hope the two classes keep talking and get resolution on sharing the grid lest the fans stay away for good.

BTW Sidewayz, in this instance "too" has two o's....

[Mark Petch]

Originally Posted by Goat Boy

Really? You may be a MSNZ lackey Sidewayz but I think that email just made a monkey out of Mr Harris in particular - which is unsurprising if you will recall his radio interview at the start of the whole ST thing a couple of years back.

I am in agreement with everyone that there should be a single V8 grid (not including utes) with multiple classes, but for Harris & co. to come out and try to force the issue is nothing short of stupid. But then again, I guess it wouldn't be the first time they have shot from the hip, would it?

Let's hope the two classes keep talking and get resolution on sharing the grid lest the fans stay away for good.

BTW Sidewayz, in this instance "too" has two o's....

Hi Goat Boy, FYI. Sidewayz [Geoff Short in real life] made a lot of money during his tenure with TMC, which was 60% owned by MSNZ before it went under, so its understandable that he would toe the party line. After all "Turkey's are not known to vote for an early Christmas" are they.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by Mark Petch

Hi Goat Boy, FYI. Sidewayz [Geoff Short in real life] made a lot of money during his tenure with TMC, which was 60% owned by MSNZ before it went under, so its understandable that he would toe the party line. After all "Turkey's are not known to vote for an early Christmas" are they.

[CDM]

Originally Posted by promax

feel sorry for the teams talking to potential sponsors.. while all this bs is going on

The sensible thing here (and I know that sounds crazy) would be that both are partly correct. Reading between the lines (& lies) I'm guessing that if COGs did agree to 'ban' them, it may indeed be a future ban, as in they will honour the dates set for the next V8ST season, but wont give any dates past that unless there is a compromise. Because lets be fair there are sponsors, teams, tracks, fans etc etc that have made a commitment to the 2014/2015 V8ST season & I'm sure that COGs acknowledge that, and would also know that an immediate & wholesale ban (although immediately effective) isn't a good look for the sport in general. But a future ban allows anything finalised (ie their 2014/15 season) to continue and also effectively sets a 12m date for things to be sorted by.

[JamesK]

V8ST may have existing contracts with those tracks for the next season, so there is a good chance the tracks can't enforce a ban due to the risk of legal action.
Like CDM only guessing.

[Goat Boy]

Seriously, unless the circuits are taking the financial risk, why would they bother even talking about a ban? As long as they get paid for their track hire it's no skin off their noses whether anyone comes along to these events, is it?

Although I'd probably want money up front TBH.

[promax]

Originally Posted by CDM

The sensible thing here (and I know that sounds crazy) would be that both are partly correct. Reading between the lines (& lies) I'm guessing that if COGs did agree to 'ban' them, it may indeed be a future ban, as in they will honour the dates set for the next V8ST season, but wont give any dates past that unless there is a compromise. Because lets be fair there are sponsors, teams, tracks, fans etc etc that have made a commitment to the 2014/2015 V8ST season & I'm sure that COGs acknowledge that, and would also know that an immediate & wholesale ban (although immediately effective) isn't a good look for the sport in general. But a future ban allows anything finalised (ie their 2014/15 season) to continue and also effectively sets a 12m date for things to be sorted by.

I think ST have shot themselves in the foot.. with these bizarre open letters posted online. even their staunchest supporters are starting to question the groups actions. ST.. the people have spoken.. and they're tired of all this crap!

oh well.. good luck to them trying to promote their new season after all of this mess

[JamesK]

Question: So why didn't COG's relay their decision to V8ST & NZV8's directly.
What was the requirement to do this through MSNZ.
As indicated elsewhere they are an independent group, and I assume don't need MSNZ's approval for their actions.
Would have eliminated all this mess, of who said what.
What they need to do is issue a combined statement on behalf of all the track owners clarifying the situation.

[Goat Boy]

My view of the world of V8 racing:

For an organisation tasked with the administration and betterment of motorsport in NZ, MSNZ have managed to make a complete hash of the entire V8 thing thanks to the actions of a few individuals.

When the ST breakaway was announced, if personalities and egos had been put aside, it should have been recognized as a great opportunity to re-vamp a flagging series with ancient cars that nobody really watched any more. MSNZ could have taken advantage of the private investment that had come into the sport and see in what way they could jump onto the bandwagon to capitalise on some early public enthusiasm generated through some slick marketing and some household names like Greg Murphy and Paul Radisich (I know he wasn't involved for long). It may have been swallowing a dead rat for some, but the long term effect would have been something pretty good to go and see.

They could have looked to see how their efforts could be incorporated into a bright shiny new series with fast cars, big grids and overseas drivers, albeit a privately run series, but with the aim of increasing motorsport patronage across the country and getting people out to see something other than a once a year V8 Supercar show.

Instead, some individuals chose to do their level best to derail the series from Day 1, not only by publicly bagging it on the radio but also by investing directly in a rival series that was not even off the ground (by buying the jigs for tens of thousands of members' dollars as well as affording it a Gold Star championship status when at the time of its launch there were only two or three cars in the series). They also strove to prevent ST's from appearing at the V8SC event in Pukekohe, despite no objection from the SC people at them running there.

Those same individuals had done their very best to try and block the calendar of the ST series and generally try and act in any way within their grasp to destroy the series (and publicly said so), despite still not having anything with which to viably replace it.

The result of this was that the ownership model for ST's where the teams controlled their own destiny became untenable and the team owners were forced to sell to a single commercial entity. Since that time there has been disillusionment in several of the ST teams and the grid has reduced from a fantastic 20 cars down to a very mediocre 14 - 16 cars (still more than double any TLX field to date).

The end result is that fans (of whom I am one) have become fed up with seeing small grids and the childish and frankly pathetic bickering and have voted with their feet. I have not been to any motorsport event this year for the first time in I can't remember how long, and that is how I see it continuing (with the exception of classic events or Speedway).

I would see the actions of these individuals at MSNZ as acting directly against the interests of the sport they are supposed to be promoting, so it begs the question as to how they are able to stay doing their jobs when they so clearly seem to not be interested in actually doing them.

I am not saying ST management have been blameless in this saga but at the end of the day they took a hard decision with the support of a large number of teams and drivers which should have been beneficial to the sport as a whole. In doing that they should have been able to rely on the support of a governing body one of whose tasks is to assist and support motorsport and related activities.

Sadly, the stable door is open and the horse has bolted as far as the fans for both classes go - where we could have been seeing crowds of 15 - 20,000 at Tier 1 ST events we are getting nobody to either, myself included.

Take a bow, guilty parties, you've done a great job. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your armpits.

[GT 86]

Originally Posted by JamesK

Question: So why didn't COG's relay their decision to V8ST & NZV8's directly.
What was the requirement to do this through MSNZ.
As indicated elsewhere they are an independent group, and I assume don't need MSNZ's approval for their actions.
Would have eliminated all this mess, of who said what.
What they need to do is issue a combined statement on behalf of all the track owners clarifying the situation.

Perhaps this was aimed at MSNZ as it seems ST didn't get the letter. They got a MSNZ modified version which seems to be a regular occurance.

I say good on ST for publishing this letter which seems to have changed from what the COG's said to Mr Harris. Also heard that there was some other fairly to the point comment from COG about MSNZ's current financial position?

If you continue to tell lies you will be caught and as Mr Harris found out at the V8SC event at Puke from Ray Noonan (in front of everyone), Mr Budd had been doing things he shouldn't of, taking the law into his own hands and not keeping others informed and now Mr Harris joins the club of BS.

[Goat Boy]

Originally Posted by GT 86

If you continue to tell lies you will be caught and as Mr Harris found out at the V8SC event at Puke from Ray Noonan (in front of everyone), Mr Budd had been doing things he shouldn't of, taking the law into his own hands and not keeping others informed and now Mr Harris joins the club of BS.

Missed that one, what happened?

[promax]

i don't think 86 ever goes deep into anything lol normally just drops hints.. then disappears

[promax]

so how many teams are unhappy about the current situation and want changes made soon rather than later?

just curious

[pukekoheracer]

Originally Posted by promax

so how many teams are unhappy about the current situation and want changes made soon rather than later?

just curious

Which Current Situation are you talking about?