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Old 15 Aug 2010, 10:19 (Ref:2744734)   #1
Jamesy-18
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BTCC 2011 rumour mill

About a year to the day that I created last year's rumour mill, I'm back again.

So, any news/rumours out about what could happen next season in terms of the driver market?

Despite the first year of the NGTC cars coming in to play, I doubt we'll see many nor see many changes to the grid.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 10:39 (Ref:2744740)   #2
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So who will be the first of the top teams to build an NGTC car, i would love to think an Arena Ford Mondeo!
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 10:48 (Ref:2744745)   #3
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So who will be the first of the top teams to build an NGTC car,
GPR Motorsport
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 12:48 (Ref:2744770)   #4
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Despite the first year of the NGTC cars coming in to play, I doubt we'll see many nor see many changes to the grid.
I would have thought the reverse was true. Unless there's a last minute reprise the introduction of NGTC means the death of BTC-T, which in turn means 20% of the current entry list will need a new car if they are to return.

I'm curious to see what the take-up will be on the TOCA-badged NGTC engine, for me the jury is still out on that. It's clearly a big heavy lump and whilst it seems to work in the Vectra it will be interesting to see if it works in smaller cars. Hopefully we'll get a better idea after seeing Glew's SEAT at Silverstone.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 14:59 (Ref:2744796)   #5
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Have Swindon Racing Engines solved the issues they were having with the NGTC unit blowing up every time it hit the track?
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 15:04 (Ref:2744798)   #6
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Have Swindon Racing Engines solved the issues they were having with the NGTC unit blowing up every time it hit the track?
It seems not by some of the recent problems Jordan and Pinkney have had!
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 16:49 (Ref:2744831)   #7
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It's clearly a big heavy lump and whilst it seems to work in the Vectra it will be interesting to see if it works in smaller cars. Hopefully we'll get a better idea after seeing Glew's SEAT at Silverstone.
My feeling is that may be half the reason behind the YRC Leon entry.

As for a rumour to mill over, I did hear a month or so back that a certain team has signed a long term deal with a sponsor and they will be going for the best drivers based on who's the quickest, not on what budget they bring.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 17:02 (Ref:2744832)   #8
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Only two current teams fit that bill... WSR or 888
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 17:03 (Ref:2744833)   #9
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Dos anyone know how Thorney have got on building their Insignia? I rememer them saying it was to be built this year, run in Britcar possibly, ahead of next season. Is that still the plan?
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 17:10 (Ref:2744837)   #10
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Only two current teams fit that bill... WSR or 888
Possibly...

..possibly not.

It'd be interesting to know if anyone else heard the same story as me, or whether it was just paddock gossip.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 17:58 (Ref:2744852)   #11
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Dos anyone know how Thorney have got on building their Insignia? I rememer them saying it was to be built this year, run in Britcar possibly, ahead of next season. Is that still the plan?
Seem to recall they abandoned the idea a few months back.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 18:06 (Ref:2744857)   #12
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If it is WSR, they should get rid of Neate. I mean, it's good to see him racing after his big accident in Britcar, it was a real "feel-good" story at the start of this year. But, results pay. There's no other way around it but to say that he's been pretty average this year at best, and if WSR are serious about becoming champion again, Neate needs to go.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 18:39 (Ref:2744868)   #13
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I doubt there are any deals done for 2011 in BTCC such is the nature recently of these being concluded near xmas and into the new year with many drivers only turning up days before the first event.

Redshoes is right that a concern exists to the new rules next year not allowing BTC-T cars which could reduce the field, notably Sunshine with the Integras who run on a shoe string budget, to lose this team and Paul O'Neill would be a disaster.

Do we however want to see a fielde full of Toyota Avensis's with an engine that has so far proved unreliable and sounds dreadful on track...the BTCC needs the variation of cars to remain appealing rather than a one make series.

As for Andy Neate ...well the results speak for themselves and he is in a top line car.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 18:43 (Ref:2744869)   #14
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I don't think we will see an all-Toyota series, just that the Avensis is the test mule being used for developing the spec subframes. I wouldn't be surprised if several of the front running teams go NGTC.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 19:10 (Ref:2744875)   #15
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I wouldn't be surprised if several of the front running teams go NGTC.
I would, after all where is the money coming from?

- Silverline Chevrolet obviously have no reason to go NGTC.
- A Team Dynamics developed Honda (Accord?) would make sense from a marketing point of view as the Type-R Civic is being killed off but Honda are barely putting any money in now. I doubt they would be willing to stump up the development costs.
- I doubt Arena would want to build another car whilst there is much mileage in the Focus, especially once they fit a legal NGTC-spec engine.
- Triple Eight need a manufacturer or a big sponsor
- WSR have the capability but like everyone else need a backer.
- I don't think Motorbase are the sort of team who would want to get into building/developing their own car from scratch, and again there's still plenty of mileage in the BMWs

Unless there's an influx from other series I'm running out of front running teams.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 19:51 (Ref:2744894)   #16
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It always surprised me that Team Dynamics went with the Civic rather than the Accord. After the success that NTech had with the Accord in 2008 I would have thought that would have been the better path to go down.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 20:31 (Ref:2744914)   #17
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N-Tech's success was down to a certain driver at the time -James Thompson who out drove that car in many races but long term I agree the Accord was the better bet.I guess at the time the Civic was new out in 07 and seemed the perfect ploy to get Honda on board based on the Civic Type R's UK sales sadly this failed to materialise.
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 20:41 (Ref:2744922)   #18
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the Civic Type R's UK sales sadly this failed to materialise.
Maybe based on the fact it's pig-ugly?
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Old 15 Aug 2010, 22:44 (Ref:2744971)   #19
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Redshoes is right that a concern exists to the new rules next year not allowing BTC-T cars which could reduce the field, notably Sunshine with the Integras who run on a shoe string budget, to lose this team and Paul O'Neill would be a disaster.
Personally I think this would be one of the worst things that could happen to the BTCC for next year. The way Paul O'Neill gets that car up the grid is a joy to watch. Between the cringe factor when the cars get close (due to their limited budget) , and the difference in older & newer cars, it has me cheering him on from the sofa (or from the trackside if it's Oulton..!).

I hadn't read too much about next years rules so far, but if it truly means we'll lose the older cars I think it's a bad move
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Old 16 Aug 2010, 11:54 (Ref:2745160)   #20
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We need to move on though. It'd be as if we were in the latter years of Super Touring and there were several non-turbo Sierra RS500s pootling around towards the back.
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Old 16 Aug 2010, 11:57 (Ref:2745163)   #21
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Equally, we don't want to start 2011 with about a dozen cars on the grid...

As ever, it's about finding the right balance between moving teams on to running the new regs cars as soon as possible, and maintaining a respectable grid size

I hope they get it right- there isn't a National Saloon Car Cup to provide a ready-made Class B this time round...
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Old 16 Aug 2010, 12:17 (Ref:2745173)   #22
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I hope they get it right- there isn't a National Saloon Car Cup to provide a ready-made Class B this time round...
Sport Maxx? That needs numbers too. I guess they might just be too slow though?
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Old 16 Aug 2010, 12:40 (Ref:2745190)   #23
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What about doing what they do (or did) in Portugal and allow SEAT Leon Supercopa cars with the restrictors tweaked?
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Old 16 Aug 2010, 12:56 (Ref:2745201)   #24
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A few comments on all the above.

o In the current economic climate, I think there may be a U-turn on the BTC cars obsolesence. I know many here feel that with one or two exceptions, the guys driving these cars should be on the grid... but its important to TOCA to have a decent number of cars out and only a dozen would be a problem I would have thought.

o The Swindon motor was mainly aimed at privateers, but something needs to be done on reliability. I'm sure the Dunns will sort it out before next year. In terms of its suitability for non VXR chassis, Phil Glew will be the guinea pig, so we'll know that before the year's out too. I don't see any front running team going with an NGT motor UNLESS Alan Gow decides to crank up the boost pressure and give it an unfair advantage. Of course he may then risk alienating some of the bigger teams who could leave the series altogether. Its a delicate balance for sure.

o Andy Neate brings significant funding to WSR with his Ceravision business. His results have been poor, but as I've said many times before, I feel the series needs gentleman drivers in order to survive and never more so than now. He'll more than likely be back next year.
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Old 16 Aug 2010, 13:28 (Ref:2745214)   #25
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We need to move on though. It'd be as if we were in the latter years of Super Touring and there were several non-turbo Sierra RS500s pootling around towards the back.
But then that would be the same if there'd been a handful of '91 or '92 spec Cavaliers or Carinas out there - the teams had got their act together and developed so much that even a car from the previous year was pretty much competitively obsolete (with a handful of exceptions, but not many).

Allowing restricted RS500s got a couple more on the grid in the early days of Class 2; ditto did running it for a year alongside Group A, and the abundance of M3s (and occasional Sierra) that could be adapted before the new builds and manufacturer support came along. It's important to have some time to cross-over in privately financed motorsport, which is pretty much what BTCC is these days.

Having said that, aren't the BTC-T spec cars already a whole regulation set out of date? How many of them have been regulars this season?

NGTC seems a whole lot like Eurocars with a bit of extra flexibility......
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