[Tech Issue] Closed cockpits- Closer to reality then we might think?

[Alfaholic]

Originally Posted by bauble

Do you remember Alonso's crash earlier this year? The McLaren was totally destroyed, bits everywhere, but Fernando walked away. Magnusson at Spa, a colossal impact - a few bruises.

That is what I mean by 'not dangerous'. Probably neither would have survived 10 - 20years ago. If anyone disputes that, being able to suffer such incidents and not get hurt, means F1 is not particularly dangerous. Then they have a whole different idea of danger to me. Bianchi died in a freak accident due to the recovery vehicle being where it would not be while the race was running normally. To use this as an example of the danger of F1 is really not sensible.

Bob,

Surely these examples prove that the act of motorsport is still dangerous as there were "destroyed" cars in "colossal" impacts that were potentially life threatening. However what has changed is that lessons from the past have been learned and safety measures included in the designs of the cars and circuits to reduce the effect of the accident on the most vulnerable part of the car - the soft squishy object holding the wheel. Thus making the accidents survivable at much higher speeds than the 50s or 60s cars could manage.

Motorsport IS dangerous but thankfully not normally deadly these days.

[S griffin]

There's an article in this month's F1 Racing in which JYS describes his Spa crash in 66 and in it he says it wasn't the danger but the unnecessary danger and the fact the medical facilities were farcical. He also says they will always be a fatality so that's why we must keep striving to make it safer

[wnut]

This article from Autosport gives a chronology of the safety improvements in F1 from 1963 - 1999 which is very interesting.

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/news/safety.html

Close racing seemed o get destroyed in 1998 with the advent of the narrow cars, the accidents in races dropped from 382 to 60!
Indicating to me that the cars were no longer close to one another?

[wnut]

Plus paved run-offs.

[wnut]

Has anybody seen any developments on cockpit protection, or is the FIA simply waiting for the date to include cockpit protection in the 2018 regulations to pass?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

There is probably a brief hiatus whilst the teams concentrate on the new cars, once they are built with the new wider bits. They will no doubt start asking the teams to think more about it again for these new cars running.

[GHOGH]

Is the cockpit halo being defferred for a year till 2018?
http://www.f1-fansite.com/f1-news/dr...oduction-halo/

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I think official word was that studies would continue before a final decision on whether to mandate them for 2018 would be made during second half of the 2017 season.
I don't think anything had been set in stone.

[Mike Harte]

According to this article: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns35702.html the drivers have narrowly voted against the introduction of the halo for 2018, and that the FIA may be relenting; I mean, they have already allowed the mandatory use of the new safety structure, whatever that might be, to slip from 2017. So it's not quite as urgent as it once was!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

According to this article: http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns35702.html the drivers have narrowly voted against the introduction of the halo for 2018, and that the FIA may be relenting; I mean, they have already allowed the mandatory use of the new safety structure, whatever that might be, to slip from 2017. So it's not quite as urgent as it once was!

Seven against, five for and four abstaining... that is quit the mandate! . They absolutely need feedback from the drivers, but that should be just one part of the decision making process. It's hard to tell from that article how they are going about making decisions. I have mixed feelings about safety decisions using democratic methods.

Richard

[gttouring]

The canopies and halo designs are in my opinion, not mature enough. A canopy integrated into the aero flow of the car seems like it would work better in every case aesthetically and with 360° safety considered not just forward and glancing blows, unfortunately the LMP solutions may come our way, but being one pilot intended it would be narrowed and look much better.

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[S griffin]

I'm glad no halo, the screen seems a better solution to me

[JeremySmith]

If we are going to scrap the halo then I would prefer a fighter style canopy ..

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by gttouring

The canopies and halo designs are in my opinion, not mature enough. A canopy integrated into the aero flow of the car seems like it would work better in every case aesthetically and with 360° safety considered not just forward and glancing blows, unfortunately the LMP solutions may come our way, but being one pilot intended it would be narrowed and look much better.

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I tend to agree. How much testing has been done with either concepts, apart from the occasional appearance of mainly the Halo in practice sessions?

[ScotsBrutesFan]

I've said it before, If the canopy solution is going to be very expensive for teams to design themselves. Then A common tub / safety cell which is designed from there ground up to have a canopy, rather than just trying to Add safety bits to existing cars.
The tub can then be bolted onto the teams own chassis, together with body panels and aero.

[bjohnsonsmith]

Originally Posted by ScotsBrutesFan

I've said it before, If the canopy solution is going to be very expensive for teams to design themselves. Then A common tub / safety cell which is designed from there ground up to have a canopy, rather than just trying to Add safety bits to existing cars.
The tub can then be bolted onto the teams own chassis, together with body panels and aero.

No team is going to agree on a common tub, especially Ferrari.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith

No team is going to agree on a common tub, especially Ferrari.

It doesn't need to be a complete tub just a standard shaped cockpit surround/opening with regulated mounting points an approved canopy can be attached to.

[Matt]

Originally Posted by dsg

It doesn't need to be a complete tub just a standard shaped cockpit surround/opening with regulated mounting points an approved canopy can be attached to.

Yep, have the FIA mandate and hand out the mandatory windcreen and surround, and have the teams incorporate that into their chassis.

[chillibowl]

probably very little can be inferred from these images of SRT's concept design of the 2018 Formula E cars...but full canopy!

obviously a huge difference between a rendering of a concept and reality but aesthetically it works really well imo.

http://www.motorsport.com/formula-e/...images-873123/

[Mike Harte]

All I can say is that's double ugly! And that's being polite so as not to offend the auto-sensor.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

probably very little can be inferred from these images of SRT's concept design of the 2018 Formula E cars...but full canopy!

obviously a huge difference between a rendering of a concept and reality but aesthetically it works really well imo.

http://www.motorsport.com/formula-e/...images-873123/

Sorry, it just can't happen. This forum has been VERY clear that closed top single seater formula cars just can't exist! They are too expensive, impractical and dangerous!

Seriously, the cockpit looks interesting. But as best as I can tell they show renderings of two versions. One being a fully closed cockpit and the other being an open top but with large windscreen. The article talks to the windscreen version. So maybe they are considering both options and will pick one. Regardless... In many ways it looks light years ahead of F1. It may just steal the thunder that F1 could have owned. Will F1 be the leader or follower on this? So far they seem to be allowing others to lead.

But, when people talk about wanting beautiful cars, they have to remember the only way to do it IMHO is to have spec cars (such as Formula E). Spec cars can be whatever you want them to be, good aero, bad aero, no aero, who cares! Everyone has to deal with the same problems.

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

All I can say is that's double ugly! And that's being polite so as not to offend the auto-sensor.

To each his own. I think it is generally a step in the right direction style wise. I do have mixed feelings about the covered wheels, but I know why the did it (efficiency). For many here, that is going too far.

Richard

[wnut]

Pretty well a straight crib of the Red Bull x1-a!

Thank you Adrian Newey!

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by wnut

Pretty well a straight crib of the Red Bull x1-a!

Thank you Adrian Newey!

I thought the same.

Richard

[bjohnsonsmith]

[gttouring]

There are not too many solutions for the same question, and Adrian did keep the wing width narrow per rules that existed I recall reading, Indy car has a better platform to mandate this and carry it out as a real field test in much worse conditions- traffic filled ovals, than f1.

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