shumachers chopping tactics compared to the Patrese incident at Monza in the "70

[mariov]

Now I've hear all the comment concerning Schumachers chopping tactics at the beginning of every gran prix start.

That one cutting move is legal, and that the added comments that he also has the right to a second move to return to his original position.

Which to me is a bunch of c......

If we compare schumachers tactics to Riccardo Patrese famous cutting move at Monza that caused the death of Ronnie Peterson. Schumachers moves are more dangerous and more drastics then the move that Patreze did.

Now Patreze was penalized for that move and paid a heavy price for it.

Now if we look at the moves that shumachers makes, what is the difference, is it that he has not cause a serious injury to another driver yet, or that he has not caused a death yet.

What is the FIA waiting to act, that he does cause a death...or that all the young driver start to emulate his moves and we end up with the F1 bumper pool series of driving....

When Tactics such as Schumachers and Barichelo's recent move put the entire field in danger and takes out a third of the competition before the first lap is completed, I think that it is time that the point be driven home to the FIA and to those that will use every tactic available to them to win.

[J.McClane]

I do agree with you in some ways, why was the race not red flagged when half the field was removed in the Oz gp?
Why does Shu seem to get away with many a dodgy move?
It's as if the FIA want Shu and Ferrari to win everything.

[Ray Bell]

I believe it may be possible that the first corner at the AGP scenario may have been discussed prior to the season beginning... with a view to enabling some of the lesser teams to score points and thus have a bit of assistance through the year.

When it was possible to continue the race, I think it may have been a judgement call for that purpose.

As for the 'chop'...it should be banned.

Patrese, by the way, had capitalised on a fairly unique start situation and found himself in the dirt... his 'chop' might have been wrong, but it was a product of other circumstances.

[laudaman]

Originally posted by J.McClane
It's as if the FIA want Shu and Ferrari to win everything.

You're quick on the uptake aren't you!! We've known this since the 'disqualification' incident at Malaysia in '99

[Bononi]

Thanks Ray, for clarifying Patrese's move for the youngsters...

As for TGF's move, I can't say it was legal, but I would like a clearly explanation from FIA regarding when or not it's legal and how these rules apply in that particular situation.
I mean not what's written in the book, but an official report, explaining all that happen and why some decisions were made. That's what we all need.

But... as EERO said in another thread, these two guys won't give ground to each other in any racing situation. So get used to see this happening all races... or have you noticed that this already happened everytimes they challenge each other.... NOW WE'RE RACING !!!!

[Ray Bell]

No problem... apparently there is video somewhere showing it clearly... from a helicopter, I think...

[mariov]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Patrese, by the way, had capitalised on a fairly unique start situation and found himself in the dirt... his 'chop' might have been wrong, but it was a product of other circumstances.

My point exactly, Patrese actions where not deliberate, it was a racing accident. And at the time the FIA came down hard on him.
They actualy where mentions of a life time suspention of his super liscence.

In Schumachers case, they are deliberate. The Fia should and has to clarify the rules. And they have to do it before we loose another Peterson.

[Dr. Austin]

The FIA does nothing until someone (or more) is killed. there were almost no safety rules changes in F-1 from 1982 until imola 94. then we say sweeping changes and chicanes that blighted almost all of the great circuits. The FIA has never been safety pro-active. they have always be over-reactive. no one wants additional restrictions on what the drivers can do, but if they are so irresponsible with their driving that they start to kill each other out of foolishness, the FIA will overreact yet again. God knows how they will further emasculate the sport.

[BBKing]

This is more like Japan 89 when Prost drove into Senna and FIA penalized Senna for missing a chicane. Pathetic ruling body.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by mariov
My point exactly, Patrese actions where not deliberate, it was a racing accident. And at the time the FIA came down hard on him.
They actualy where mentions of a life time suspention of his super liscence.

I'd hardly say Patrese was blameless... a poor start, sure, but he took a course that led him to a bottleneck he knew would be there, and he chopped in... deliberately.

[djb]

Would any of you know of any sites where a more detailed account of that incident is discussed? Wasn't another driver initially blamed for the crash? (Scheckter?)
If Ray or anyone else would want to describe it in more detail, go ahead. I'd be interested. It was '77 or '78 no?

[Bononi]

Djb, I found out a video of this incident some time ago... the problem is that the camera was in the side of the chicaine. You can only view when a car goes outside the track and goes back crashing the cars...

[Ray Bell]

There is a better video, shown by ABC in America... it's described in detail here...

http://www.atlasf1.com/bb/showthread...&postid=674208

[Peter Mallett]

I believe the main cause of Patrese's punishment was James Hunt. We should always remember that poor Ronnie didn't die of his injuries in the crash, it was a medical problem that occurred overnight, admitedly due to his broken legs. However the crash iteself and his general condition immediately afterwards looked worse than it was. Anybody can suffer an embolism sadly, just like anybody can suffer a DVT from flying.

I remember where I was and what I was doing when they announced his death. Needless to say my colleagues were somewhat shocked to see the tears.


The FIA's action on this occaission was to change the pit straight at Monza.

[djb]

Thanks Ray for the reference. A very interesting (especially of the fellow with the ABC footage) but ultimately sombre read, with many points brought up that make it very difficult for a black and white answer.

Again, what goes through my mind is how lucky current drivers are competing in such a technologically safe era.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Peter Mallett
I remember where I was and what I was doing when they announced his death. Needless to say my colleagues were somewhat shocked to see the tears.

Actually, I was pulled up at the traffic lights outside Sydney University... my boss (editor of Racing Car News) pulled alongside me, wound down his window and shouted to me: "Peterson died!"

[Peter Mallett]

Would you believe I was selling some scrap Oil pipeline.

[Bononi]

Peterson was one of my fave drivers... I just knew some hours after, because at that time there was no live transmission for F1.
I remember the view from the helicopter and the fire spreading... very sad.