F Fords and Wings

andy97 · 14 Jul 2004, 09:43 (Ref:1036190)

I see from MN that there is a proposal to add wings to F Ford 1800's to make them look more modern.

I don't think that's the the answer - they are just something expensive to knock off!

Introduce the Duratec engine (lighter & more powerful than a Zetec) to give more power than grip & add in some PROMOTION/ Ford backing.

Even at my level (the lowest of the low) when I explain to people that I race a Vauxhall Junior at club level they don't get it until I explain that they are similar to F Fords!! Even a good many non enthusiasts have heard of the Formula so Ford must have succeeded in getting a fair bit of exposure from it.

darcym · 14 Jul 2004, 12:11 (Ref:1036316)

to make them more modern....there is an RF04 chassis that was made this year, the body work was new this year. FF1800's are still being made and developed, they are new and modern....adding wings just makes them a different formula. when I first started watching Formula ford the reason it was a good training ground was touted as because it was all mechanical grip, no areo rubbish, so it gave you an understanding of how to setup the car for mechanial grip and drive the car well without the aid of areo. Then when you stepped up to say Frenault you learnt the next part of your trade (wings) having got a sound level of experience with the basic mechanics of driving and setting up the car.

This was why I think the progression used to be so good, Formula Ford, Frenault/F3 F3000 F1 (for example) it gave you a good understanding of driving a car, racing and basic setup, it then cave you a understanding of Areo and racing on top of what you new, it then up'd the power and really let you mature - then F1, where as now you don't get the same grounding and experience you would have if you had followed the same route.

goughy · 14 Jul 2004, 13:22 (Ref:1036396)

Spot on Darcym. That is why FFord is so good.

However, I think their reason for wings is a simple one. The kids with money, those that make up the majority of the grid, have a choice what to race. FFord, BMW or Renault. Now for most they are realistic and know they cannot jump straight into Renault so they would go FFord first. However, there is now BMW. The problem as I see it is that they choose to go BMW's because they look the part. Personally, I think the latest FFord's look mega, but kids with money want to race in a car that looks like an F1. You can tell them till you are blue in the face about FFord gives you more track time, better racing, teaches you more, but they are only interested in what looks the best.

I think FFord had the chance to do something about wings (aesthetic ones that do nothing) long before BMW and should of really done it, now I feel its too late to pursue 'lets make a BMW' route.

FFord is brilliant how it is and I think emphasis should be placed upon what is good about the formula, not trying to clone the series into something else. After all it cannot be too bad a training ground if you look at the guys who have gone into F3 this year straight from FFord like Asmer, Walker and Kimber-Smith.

Like Andy97 said, Ford need to do something to encourage everyone to continue for 2005. After all, no one is going to go through the expense of changing to a Duratec unless they know the championship will be better for it.

Comtec Renault · 14 Jul 2004, 13:41 (Ref:1036409)

Ford can sort it but its to late IMO !! they had F Ford with wings and it was Mega remember ff2000 the mega Reynards. all the probs are with Ford they will let it die just like ff2000 so so sad, Look at Malcolm Willson he make more money out of Ford than most but he put his Son in Renault, that just stinks, if they put less than the cost of one WRC car in the kitty it might just live on.

goughy · 14 Jul 2004, 14:01 (Ref:1036425)

Very true and Comtec are a classic example. They saw the future and moved on to a championship where they can attract the drivers with the budget they need, with the support of a manufacture, which is understandable as they are a business. JLR have got a Renault team now and if they go altogether it will be to FFord's detriment. Yes, it will make it easier for guys like me to win, but that’s not what I want. I want to be able to take on the big teams with what I have, and championships need to have them.

I know from talking to a lot of drivers wishing to make the step up to National competition they want to do FFord but are too worried about its future, so are looking more towards BMW. That's what my brother is doing now, he dearly does want to race FFord because he knows he will be a better driver for it, but not if it’s a series not worth competing in, so he is working towards a BMW drive. If FFord has the support that BMW and Renault give he would do FFord with any hesitation, I think that is the key for many drivers.

So come on Ford, lets see some input and save what is a great series. I cannot believe that Renault and BMW see the merits of their huge investment but Ford cannot see it to invest anyting.

Mackmot · 14 Jul 2004, 14:09 (Ref:1036431)

Its too little too late. FF will die because no one listens and does something, they spent too long saying things were perfect and now look. FF is better than Renault or BMW for teaching drivers and everyone knows that but for drivers its looks like something from the 60s, and they have to work hard to be the best. For teams its easier to make profit and do less work in a one make formula.
Bloody annoying really because now the only challenge is getting drivers with budget rather than making a car better than anyone elses.

andy97 · 14 Jul 2004, 14:42 (Ref:1036449)

Quote:

Originally posted by Comtec Renault
Ford can sort it but its to late IMO !! they had F Ford with wings and it was Mega remember ff2000 the mega Reynards. all the probs are with Ford they will let it die just like ff2000 so so sad, Look at Malcolm Willson he make more money out of Ford than most but he put his Son in Renault, that just stinks, if they put less than the cost of one WRC car in the kitty it might just live on.

I agree, but if Ford could be persuaded to put just 1% of the budget that they are spending on Jag F1 into promotion, supporting the F Ford Festival and subsidising TV coverage they would reap massive benefits IMHO.

GolddustMini · 15 Jul 2004, 18:31 (Ref:1037521)

anyone gonna email this to ford motorsport???

they stuck crappy wings on a car and called it zip ford, dont do that with ff please!

Walshy · 15 Jul 2004, 23:39 (Ref:1037736)

Are they wings? I thought they were bumpers.

They may as well have stuck an electric motor in them for all the adrenalin pumping noise they made....

Formula Woman is more exciting(!)

GolddustMini · 16 Jul 2004, 00:37 (Ref:1037750)

they were fake wings looked more like bumpers or handles to me!

formula woman???? isnt that a body spray for girls?

blue nose · 16 Jul 2004, 03:52 (Ref:1037788)

I was never into wings as he only had a couple of tracks I liked.

Muz · 17 Jul 2004, 01:56 (Ref:1038745)

Quote:

Originally posted by Walshy
They may as well have stuck an electric motor in them for all the adrenalin pumping noise they made....

Err.... because Zetecs sound great!!!!

Zips sounded pants, but Zetec's sound pathetic as well!!

Walshy · 17 Jul 2004, 11:36 (Ref:1038937)

The Zetec's aren't quite as bad as the Zips, but the Kent's sound 10 times better than the pair of them put together. They would sound even better if you took off the silencers.

All this rubbish about noise pollution. You can't have a race engine sounding after 6.30pm at Donington, but they could have a 130Db Stereo pumping away at 9.30 at night at the organised cruise!

One of the best sounding race cars is an F1 Stock car. they sound wicked.

What's this got to do with Wings? I dunno. Me thinks a new Thread is coming on about the sound of a race car.

GolddustMini · 17 Jul 2004, 17:06 (Ref:1039086)

nicest sounding car has to be the brm V16..... mmmmm

Kicking-back · 17 Jul 2004, 18:52 (Ref:1039138)

This will definitely be the last year of FFord as a "career" formula, I reckon.

Club only from next year - and it'll thrive in that role.

diz · 17 Jul 2004, 19:49 (Ref:1039184)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
This will definitely be the last year of FFord as a "career" formula, I reckon.
Club only from next year - and it'll thrive in that role.

1. Probably and 2. Probably not.

It will likely be some time before FF1800 [we aren't allowed to call them Zetec at club level] could muster decent club grids. At present, the driver base is mainly southern in the 'National' FF1800 Series and they are reticent about travelling. If this year's cars filter down to club level, at a 50/50 regional split, the Southern rounds would have acceptable grids, but it would be a year or two before you could expect more than single figure grids at Northern circuits.
So the 'National club calendar would probably comprise more southern rounds and the northern based drivers would lose interest. Then we are back at a Southern FF1800 series. Sad, but true.

However, all is not lost.

Proper Formula Ford is thriving north of Watford with the Star Of the Midlands, North West and Castle Combe series for FF1600, whilst - sadly - the Southern version is on its knees entrywise.

IMHO we'll probably end up with a southern based FF1800 series, the 3 regional FF1600 series mentioned above, plus Classic FF1600, Historic FF1600 and N Ireland FF1600. Eire are on their way back into FF1600 as well.

There are hundreds of active FF1600 cars out there.

Not forgetting that many of the Zetecs coming onto the market will be converted to 1600cc Kent spec. Van Diemen, Mygale, Ray, Jamun, Swift etc. will probably do new builds to Kent Spec if you asked them [VD already do]. It wouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility for Crossle and Mondiale to turn out a new FF1600. Lola used to do a fair FF1600 and they are still about.

The future's bright, the future's FF1600.

Comtec Renault · 18 Jul 2004, 07:42 (Ref:1039445)

I Agree that is the way it will go, I know that to new cars are bieng built now for Ford FF1600 one will be very good as the people behind it are the best!! also they will be happy to make 3 or 5 a year so the fact is that its going back to the good old days of lots of small makes and thats good.

Kicking-back · 19 Jul 2004, 22:57 (Ref:1040832)

I should've been clearer, FF1600/Club only as the way forward was what I meant.

kickstart · 20 Jul 2004, 07:56 (Ref:1040983)

Diz, are you sure that the races on the 31st July at Oulton are on the Island Circuit as I am racing with Monoposto and their info says fosters circuit.

diz · 20 Jul 2004, 08:01 (Ref:1040985)

Quote:

Originally posted by kickstart
Diz, are you sure that the races on the 31st July at Oulton are on the Island Circuit as I am racing with Monoposto and their info says fosters circuit.

Nigel
Trust me, I'm a Scouser

Yes it is definitely on Island.

Garry Holmes · 23 Jul 2004, 15:03 (Ref:1044745)

Something thats looming on the horizon is engines? Is there really a problem with block supply for 1600's, if so has anyone ever tried a K-series (yes I know its not a ford) in a 1600 chassis? they seem to be an engine of choice to replace the Kent in Clubmans & Caterhams.

JustinDawkins · 23 Jul 2004, 15:11 (Ref:1044755)

Not sure a K-series (goes for Zetec too) would go into most Kent chassis, as it so much taller.

JohnMiller · 23 Jul 2004, 15:27 (Ref:1044779)

I heard that in Brazil, Ford made 17,000,000 crossflows - most of which are in scrapyards.

TTRMotorsport · 25 Jul 2004, 10:53 (Ref:1046532)

Sorry if someone has already said this, Wouldnt lowering the age to 15 in ford save it cause it is better formula than Bmw because it is mechanical grip so better place to learn and it has more grunt and i assume cheaper.

But when i mentioned it to Barbera Armstrong she hated the idea she said it was ridicoulous idea to let 15 year olds on track, which i would agree with if they cant drive suppose they would have to evaluation day of some kind to prove they can. Oh and improve Tv coverage it is rubbish.

Kicking-back · 25 Jul 2004, 10:55 (Ref:1046536)

Formula BMW has a manufacturer behind it, whereas Formula Ford no longer does.

Times change.

Incidentally, some of the 15-year-olds in Formula BMW are among the cleanest drivers in the series.

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