CSCC and HRDC Series - Summer Classic

[Peter Mallett]

I am putting a new Tillet seat in my MGB for the 6hrs because I have been told that non FIA seats are now not permitted. I can't verify the requirement other than to suggest that the scrutes have thrown cars out for this before now. The existing seat will remain in the car for the races prior to the 6hrs though seeing as it's only 18 months old.

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by Burfs

I am a little worried after reading some of this thread about passing scrutineering at Spa.... I thought (was told) that the rule was if you had FIA rated equipment it had to be up to date. I have a non-FIA seat in my Sebring Sprite...what is the view? Will this be Ok or do Belgian scrutineers insist on FIA seats?
Help appreciated!
Thanks all.
Burfs.

My understanding is that it is all about which FIA period your car is in. The scrutineering info put out by the Belgian organisers is very comprehensive - but it specifically states that it relates to cars from period F onwards. A MGB would therefore fall into this category, a Sebring Sprite would be period E (i.e. pre December '61). Regarding a FIA seat, if fitted it must be in date - 5 years from manufacture.

For Julius' race at the Summer Classic, he has arranged some dispensation for HRDC competitors, in previous years I know that Hugo at the CSCC has made similar arrangements.

The instructions from the Roadbook organisation now has the following:-

Important notice for the car equipment of the Historic Racing Drivers Club.
(notice valid only for Historic Racing Drivers Club)

1. Handheld fire extinguisher, min 2kg powder / 2.25ltr AFFF will be accepted.
2. For cars in GTS and CT of Period F (1/1/1962) or later, if the original front seats are changed, this must be for seats of period specification or for a complete seat system for which the FIA homologation is valid. For other periods, these seats are recommended.

3. ROPS rules from the MSA'blue book' will be accepted.

What constitutes a seat of period construction may be debatable - but I have a Ridgard seat in my Elite and it has been happily passed by Belgian scruts before. But as the car is a period E, the seat "rule" is only recommended......

The full instructions for HRDC entrants is attached - interesting info about Thursday testing included.

Hope this helps.

[Al Weyman]

Cant be arsed for all that bother changing seats and all, silly and petty rules if you ask me that make absolutely no sense and are basically saying you are OK with a standard seat in an old rust worm but not in a later modern car. Keep Spa I will do UK tracks only.

[Peter Mallett]

Except the rules will be changing in the UK too.

[Burfs]

Brian, thank you for your help, the Log Book for Spa is very helpful.
All going to plan, see you in Belgium!
Burfs.

[terence]

Period Seats did not have FIA labels[obviously] So if a Period Seat is fitted,you should pass scrutineering.

[zefarelly]

I'm sorted now, no need for a new FE. just need to save up for some fuel.

Arthurs even got a few days approved holiday from school, its an educational trip, so remember to speak French to him if you see him.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Except the rules will be changing in the UK too.

As and when they do I will have to comply thats if I decide to carry on in this stupid over priced game as I will probably along with thousands of others up and down the country say thats it, final nail enough is enough get on with it.

They can milk the cow for so long but I fear the end is nigh for a lot of people now as limits have been reached and if MSA and FIA isnt very careful the whole thing will collapse I am watching single figure races on Motors as it is (7 in BARC Prod Saloons at weekend) without imposing more massive expence, they need to start treading very very carefully or they will also find themselves redundant. Just going back to the seat thing, you feel I could get sued if someone raced my car with a non FIA compliant although still legal in UK seat and got injured, well the most successful club in this country at the moment is CSCC I think we have to agree and their whole thing is based on car sharing and splitting the costs, if the scenario you say is true and I am not saying it isnt in this litigation strewn place then surely just one case and not necessarilly just seats lets include everything that can fail on a race car like brakes etc. means the owner gets sued so where does that leave UK Motorsport??? I was under the impression we paid £35 insurance per head per meeting to safeguard against getting sued by a third party, am I incorrect in this assumption.

[Brian A]

Just to re-emphasise.

The Belgian scrutineers will check dates and will stop you racing if anything out of date.

If you have a FIA seat, it must be within 5 years of manufacture (or 10 years with the fancy new 8862-2010 homologation).

The extinguisher "must have been inspected within 2 years" - something British scrutineers don't check.

All clothing must be of the correct specification - including long johns.

And one final thing - they will want assurance that the fuel tank is foam filled - if they can see into it, they will check it - in Zef's case smoking a cigarette at the same time.

One other bizarre thing is that you'll see pet dogs in the paddock at Spa. I remember one year even noticing a big alsatian at one of the marshall's posts. I think he was in charge of the blue flags.....

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

As and when they do I will have to comply thats if I decide to carry on in this stupid over priced game as I will probably along with thousands of others up and down the country say thats it, final nail enough is enough get on with it.

They can milk the cow for so long but I fear the end is nigh for a lot of people now as limits have been reached and if MSA and FIA isnt very careful the whole thing will collapse I am watching single figure races on Motors as it is (7 in BARC Prod Saloons at weekend) without imposing more massive expence, they need to start treading very very carefully or they will also find themselves redundant. Just going back to the seat thing, you feel I could get sued if someone raced my car with a non FIA compliant although still legal in UK seat and got injured, well the most successful club in this country at the moment is CSCC I think we have to agree and their whole thing is based on car sharing and splitting the costs, if the scenario you say is true and I am not saying it isnt in this litigation strewn place then surely just one case and not necessarilly just seats lets include everything that can fail on a race car like brakes etc. means the owner gets sued so where does that leave UK Motorsport??? I was under the impression we paid £35 insurance per head per meeting to safeguard against getting sued by a third party, am I incorrect in this assumption.

Al,

I gave you the advice as a mate and in a pm. I'm not about to issue what is quite expensive advice on an open forum. If you really don't think what I told you was legit then I suggest you seek other advice and pay the money for it.

[zefarelly]

TO be honest, when I've changed my seat and harness they've both been over 5 years old and reasonably well used . . . to the point I've looked at them and gone, oh yes, you can see the wear and tear, perhaps a fresh new one isn't such a bad idea, especially if I did have a shunt.

seats flex a lot ad the GRP shell will fatigue, belts chafe and stretch . . . . no different to fitting new tyres and pads, or changing oils etc really. I've even checked my steering wheel and boss etc this week!

[Al Weyman]

Sorry Pete what you have suggested could have profound consequences for any car sharers and if factual and as I said I have no reason to say it isnt, I think it should be discussed in open infact I may even take it up with the MSA I mean just where do you draw the line here its not just the seat that worries me I think that could be the tip of the iceberg especially for a home and non-professional uninsured owner. I didnt think it was particularly sensitive and sorry if you were offended by my post but I only touched on the detail so cannot really see why you should be as that was not the intention. One way for me to be safe if in doubt I will just drive the things myself and only do short races, motorsports loss yet again, another however small nail in the coffin, I just don't get this anymore sorry.

[Al Weyman]

So these strict continentals actually allow dogs at the circuit, could you make this up lol?

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Sorry Pete what you have suggested could have profound consequences for any car sharers and if factual and as I said I have no reason to say it isnt, I think it should be discussed in open infact I may even take it up with the MSA I mean just where do you draw the line here its not just the seat that worries me I think that could be the tip of the iceberg especially for a home and non-professional uninsured owner. I didnt think it was particularly sensitive and sorry if you were offended by my post but I only touched on the detail so cannot really see why you should be as that was not the intention. One way for me to be safe if in doubt I will just drive the things myself and only do short races, motorsports loss yet again, another however small nail in the coffin, I just don't get this anymore sorry.

Al, you didn't touch on the detail, you completely missed the point of what I told you.

And I am not willing to discuss it in an open forum.

[Al Weyman]

OK fine no problem.

[LAK]

Jason's just spent a lot of time replacing our more modern race seat with our FIA seat from the Coupe into the Aurelia. It was either that or stick the bench seat back in....

Brian A as usual gives excellent advice and follows our experiences at racing yearly at Spa. At least it hasn't quite got to the extent of the Nurburgring who last year required we out a CAt converter on our Lancai Bet and inevitably didn't check it... Sigh.

On the dog issue which I know amuses (horrifies?) many, Billy dog will be taking his first trip to Spa (dates never worked out before) with us which joins a lovely list of circuits he's been to on the continent - Monza, Dijon and the Nurburgring. He may even get a drive (he adores speed) as I've fractured my wrist and am fibre glassed up and only find out with a few days to spare if it will be okay for the race. In the meantime I have to endure a 2 week holiday travelling through Europe not helping Jason drive the motorhome

[terence]

Originally Posted by Brian A

Just to re-emphasise.

The Belgian scrutineers will check dates and will stop you racing if anything out of date.

If you have a FIA seat, it must be within 5 years of manufacture (or 10 years with the fancy new 8862-2010 homologation).

The extinguisher "must have been inspected within 2 years" - something British scrutineers don't check.

All clothing must be of the correct specification - including long johns.

And one final thing - they will want assurance that the fuel tank is foam filled - if they can see into it, they will check it - in Zef's case smoking a cigarette at the same time.

One other bizarre thing is that you'll see pet dogs in the paddock at Spa. I remember one year even noticing a big alsatian at one of the marshall's posts. I think he was in charge of the blue flags.....

Even more bizzare is seeing a Fox on a lead,then holding him in my arm's! He'd been brought up with the guy's puppies and obviously thought himself a dog.
[remembered to bring the lap top this time!] Anyway,off to work.

[zefarelly]

We happily tolerate Deer and Rabbits on the circuit at Goodwood, so a doggie on a string in the Paddock's not so unreasonable.

I'd rather see a dog on a lead than some of the ********s on those scooter things.

[Al Weyman]

Deers and Rabbits don't chase cars they run away from them however Dogs do!

[Brian A]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

I'd rather see a dog on a lead than some of the ********s on those scooter things.

Couldn't agree more - absolute menaces.

Will you be taking yours Zef?

[LAK]

Shall I compound everyone's horror and say that Billy also travels on our scooter? He has a special box on the back, glasses and loves going fast. I fear I am now turning us into the race neighbours from hell - dog and scooter!

Al, don't know of any dog that chases cars - obviously not bought up very well. Billy is very used to being on a lead in the Paddock and likes meeting people and checking out cars. When it's loud he wears his mutt muffs (pair of cans for dogs) but gets embarressed if anyone tries to take a photo...

[HRSTR5]

Sitting in the BRDC stand last Saturday to watch little brother in HFF, when a baby bunny rabbit popped onto the circuit from ourside of the track, ran on a few feet, waited (frozen to the spot) as a couple of cars went by, ran on a few more feet, two more went by, then ran around in a complete circle before completing his successful crossing and ran off on the grass towards the late-lamented Bridge corner. He got a huge cheer - I'm glad he made it, I was with my two nieces aged 5 and 2, imagine the tears ...

[Peter Mallett]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Deers and Rabbits don't chase cars they run away from them however Dogs do!

Well if you're worried about being caught by one, just drive a lot faster!

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by zefarelly

We happily tolerate Deer and Rabbits on the circuit at Goodwood, so a doggie on a string in the Paddock's not so unreasonable.

I'd rather see a dog on a lead than some of the ********s on those scooter things.

Yes, quite agree with all that!

Having said that, at Spa a quad looks very useful for getting spare wheels, jack etc up the hill for your race! Only time I wish had one....

If I have another doggo, and he or she is chipped (for economy, you understand- NOT power ), I would happily take them to European circuits with me.

[Al Weyman]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Well if you're worried about being caught by one, just drive a lot faster!

No I am worried about hitting the thing when he is chasing the car in front. Dogs get spooked however well behaved they are and can act irrationally, its just not the place for a dog and I am surprised so many think its ok.