[WEC] 2018-2019 WEC Super Season

[TF110]

I bet the private teams get a lot of performance breaks if they are not at Toyota's pace. No doubt they will be faster than lmp2. P2 is 930kg, the new lmp1 cars are supposed to be 850kg in the rules. Even with the same engine power and aero, they will be faster just because of that 80kg difference in weight.

[GasperG]

I also think that Privaters will be on pace or even faster than Toyota, the only thing that is on Toyota side is years of development and perfection, I expect private teams will hit a lot of troubles in those 24 hours, they had a really short time frame for development.

[canaglia]

Originally Posted by TF110

I bet the private teams get a lot of performance breaks if they are not at Toyota's pace. No doubt they will be faster than lmp2. P2 is 930kg, the new lmp1 cars are supposed to be 850kg in the rules. Even with the same engine power and aero, they will be faster just because of that 80kg difference in weight.

About weight to me is very unlikely that private lmp1 will reach reg. min weight. I guess that even gibson powered lmp1 will struggle to be in the 880kg. Just my opinion.

Anyway, I've always been an avid pc sims modder, year by year I recreated whole WEC/DTM/f1 etc.... championships for GTR2, making physics as realistic as possible. I tried to make a quick simulation of 2018 cars performances window.

Silverstone LMP2 best laptime: low 1.43

Silverstone Toyota best laptime: low-mid 1.37

To test a private lmp1 I used as base a 2017 oreca 07 with low drag physics, 880kg min. weight and gibson lmp2 engine set like the old zytekJ458 (590Nm@7250rpm - 680hp@9000rpm).
Best laptime: mid 1.40

[joeb]

Originally Posted by TF110

I bet the private teams get a lot of performance breaks if they are not at Toyota's pace. No doubt they will be faster than lmp2. P2 is 930kg, the new lmp1 cars are supposed to be 850kg in the rules. Even with the same engine power and aero, they will be faster just because of that 80kg difference in weight.

I'm just thinking back a few years when Rebellion debuted the R-one and it had trouble staying out of the way of the P2 cars at first. Even though it had a lower mandated weight and increased power, and those were the old P2 cars not the new beasts.

I don't know how much all the new cars are going to be testing before the season starts but there's a chance they could be slightly behind on the development curve and therefore not performing to their full capacity despite what their weight and power figures say.

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by joeb

I'm just thinking back a few years when Rebellion debuted the R-one and it had trouble staying out of the way of the P2 cars at first. Even though it had a lower mandated weight and increased power, and those were the old P2 cars not the new beasts.

I don't know how much all the new cars are going to be testing before the season starts but there's a chance they could be slightly behind on the development curve and therefore not performing to their full capacity despite what their weight and power figures say.

Those cars were never particularly great in the 'sprint races', but IMO that's the result of hyper optimization for Le Mans. If we go with the showings of R-One/04 and lesser extent 05 and 07 LMP2, I expect the 09? to be amazing at Le Mans performance wise, and 'okay' everywhere else.

[TF110]

The new cars are purpose built lmp1's to the new regulations. If the Rebellion is going with an upgraded (lmp2) Oreca 07, then it is no doubt that they will be faster. They stated before that the car is ballasted to meet the minimum weight. Let's not forget that they have a couple years of experience with the same dimensions as the lmp1s now. The 05 was slimmer than the other p2's in 2016 which was part of the reason why the 07 was so much better than the competition.

[Hawkwood]

Toyota set to retain their 2017 driver line-up, meaning Alonso will replace one on an ad-hoc basis:
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...or-superseason

[TF110]

Can't imagine any of their drivers giving up a seat for him willingly. He as well have his own car with two other Toyota drivers.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Hawkwood

Toyota set to retain their 2017 driver line-up, meaning Alonso will replace one on an ad-hoc basis:
https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...or-superseason

Taken at face value, I find the approach extraordinary. I can see a lot of noses put out of joint by Alonso's presence. I'm sure the discussions have already taken place, and 'the 6' know exactly which races they will be sitting out, and have agreed to tow the line in interviews, but personally, I've lost my enthusiasm for Alonso's 'guest' appearances over the next 2 years. Maybe I'm making too big a deal of it...probably. Anyway, nothing has been said officially yet, so perhaps it'll all make sense in due course.

[Deleted]

One of them is probably on race-by-race contract but they just won't say it in public.

[Bcarr6]

Rumour going round other subforums puttng Maxime Martin in a Aston for the WEC

So who would lose out?

They have already added Alex Lynn for 2018.

Assuming Daniel Serra doesnt come back, they still have Darren Turner, Johnny Adam, Nicki Thiim, Marco Sorensen, Pedro Lamy and now Alex Lynn.

so could it be:

Turner / Adam / Lynn
Thiim / Sorensen / Martin

With Lamy in a Pro-Am car again

[AMRMatthijs]

Interesting snippet from the info page on the ticket page for the WEC opener at Spa: “Cherry on the cake is that Toyota Gazoo Racing will have to commit to a third car for Fernando Alonso.”

Was this written by someone jumping the gun or just someone’s over enthusiastic? I wouldn’t be surprised if McLaren would fund the third car not unlike this year’s Indy 500 effort.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Taken at face value, I find the approach extraordinary. I can see a lot of noses put out of joint by Alonso's presence. I'm sure the discussions have already taken place, and 'the 6' know exactly which races they will be sitting out, and have agreed to tow the line in interviews, but personally, I've lost my enthusiasm for Alonso's 'guest' appearances over the next 2 years. Maybe I'm making too big a deal of it...probably. Anyway, nothing has been said officially yet, so perhaps it'll all make sense in due course.

I see what you are saying, but I’m sure it’s not the first time that any of the Toyota drivers have been passed over because someone better came along. And he other way round too, they’ve all had opportunities over someone else.

[TF110]

I guess then the question would be is he going to be better than their own drivers or just better for marketing I think it makes sense to have a third car for him and other drivers like Hirakawa and Sarrazin.

[Adam43]

I suspect Alonso will be alright at the driving bit.

The winkie saved you.

[Akrapovic]

I kind of agree that this takes the wind out of the Alonso sails a bit. It seems like an odd compromise that potentially leaves nobody completely happy. Not sure, but hey, it's still better to have him than not have him.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Adam43

I see what you are saying, but I’m sure it’s not the first time that any of the Toyota drivers have been passed over because someone better came along. And he other way round too, they’ve all had opportunities over someone else.

To me, the logical way to accommodate him would have been to have five of their six drivers full time, plus Alonso driving when he's available, and the sixth driver stepping down to reserve driver for when Alonso has to go and do his day job. Anyway, I'm sure they know what they're doing.

[Adam43]

Realistically I guess that is what they’re doing.

[Bentley03]

Yep, six reserve drivers, plus Alonso.

[canaglia]

bmw 2018 line up

https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/1...wec-gte-attack

[Deleted]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Yep, six reserve drivers, plus Alonso.

Hehe

True, of course

[Mal]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

To me, the logical way to accommodate him would have been to have five of their six drivers full time, plus Alonso driving when he's available, and the sixth driver stepping down to reserve driver for when Alonso has to go and do his day job. Anyway, I'm sure they know what they're doing.

You should consider that the publicity they will gain from running Alonso could have had a positive influence on Toyotas decision to stay in lmp1

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by Mal

You should consider that the publicity they will gain from running Alonso could have had a positive influence on Toyotas decision to stay in lmp1

Ah, no, my problem is not with Alonso, or Toyota's marketing coup in managing to bring him on board, not at all, I'm 100% in favour. And, as you say, it may well have had a positive influence on their decision to stay in LMP1. What I'm unimpressed with, is the solution Toyota have (apparently) adopted for their six contracted drivers, in order to accommodate him. As I said previously, I would have thought the logical solution would have been to sign five of their drivers full time, and the sixth to become their reserve driver, for when Alonso is unavailable to race. One nose out of joint instead of potentially six.

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Ah, no, my problem is not with Alonso, or Toyota's marketing coup in managing to bring him on board, not at all, I'm 100% in favour. And, as you say, it may well have had a positive influence on their decision to stay in LMP1. What I'm unimpressed with, is the solution Toyota have (apparently) adopted for their six contracted drivers, in order to accommodate him. As I said previously, I would have thought the logical solution would have been to sign five of their drivers full time, and the sixth to become their reserve driver, for when Alonso is unavailable to race. One nose out of joint instead of potentially six.

I agree with this. I'd have much rather have seen Alonso integrated as part of the team and treated like a normal driver. This feels like he's a guest driver. Who is the unlucky driver who will have to sit out of Le Mans? Will Toyota buy him a seat in another team (LMP2?) for the weekend?

It's an odd solution if that's how they are going.

[S griffin]

I hope they do take him on, he’s shown he can adapt to anything. He’ll be a major coo for them