"GP Live" Donington 18-20 May (and is the price extortionate?)

[historicmechy]

Well, just stumbled across this thread. Was there running Force/TGP cars this weekend. I was totally unaware of the £50 for tickets on Sunday, would definately not have paid that to go. Was good to see Freddie Hunt out in our Hesketh, even though he rather scared himself on exit of the pitlane!!! Apart from that the races were good, but not a patch on some of the other events i get to attend to be honest.

[Thundersports]

SHAMBLES! That is being kind!
Why no Minardi two seaters out despite the cars being there?
No Red Bull demo on Sunday with David Coulthard?
The Saturday evening concert promised Nick Mason and Rick Parfitt junior-no show.
Euroboss and TGP having to share pit garages between 4 of them!
Long gaps between any track activity.
I can guarantee that any fans who paid £50 won't be back........
10,000 fans sunday I would have said 1000 and Saturday 500!

[zakeriath]

10 000 spectators I think not, there were more at the Donington Market Day next door.

[JimW]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Why no Minardi two seaters out despite the cars being there?

Minardi were there on Friday only. Car left behind was "for show".

Jim

[JimW]

So I don't just repeat myself - see http://tentenths.com/forum/showthrea...rd#post1917737

Regards

Jim

[John Turner]

I could write reams about this event, most of it negative. However, much of it has already been said, although I do disagree with a couple of points raised which I will comment upon later. Since this was not apparently intended as a historic race meeting, or indeed a race meeting at all, being officially an 'F1 experience' aimed at making F1 more accessible to the fan, I thought it managed brilliantly to fall between two stools, and those stools were surely sitting atop the opposite sides of the Grand Canyon! Right, so there were plenty of modern F1 cars and drivers there? Wrong! But, not a historic meeting either? Well, no, although there were plenty of historic cars and famous drivers there, and of the few races actually run, they were all for historic cars, as were most of the demonstrations.

The link to Brooklands was tenuous (they were both 'operational' before the war) and to the 'Brooklands' demo cars even more so, since some of them were post war and very few of them had any GP links. Then there was the timetable! I'm all for flexibility, but it was changed several times during the weekend.

I am aware of some of the difficulties, mainly, I believe, financial, experienced by the organisers, even at the last minute and I understand that at one stage last week, it was 'touch and go' as to whether the event was going to go ahead at all. None of this is secret because it seemed to be the main topic of conversation around the paddock over the weekend. That it took place at all therefore was, I suppose, an achievement in itself. Whilst I'm not going to make a list, the fact is that the event did not deliver on a number of its promises. Even if the idea was to target F1 fans who don't want to pay GP prices, rather than the historic race goer (like me) used to paying between £10 and £20 per meeting, it provided extremely poor value for money. £40 on Saturday, and £50 on Sunday (no better than Saturday in entertainment value, and my view actually worse) was nothing short of 'unbelievable', a word used by more than one person to describe the price.

The reference to money brings us to another point; as had been stated already the organisers are claiming a total 3 day attendance figure of 10,000, but how many of those actually paid to get in? As it is, the figure itself is pretty low considering the amount of hype and marketing it received beforehand, but I struggle to believe that this figure only includes those who actually paid. This was one of the very rare occasions when I didn't pay, having been supplied by the organisers with a media pass for which I thank them, but whilst it may seem ungrateful, the fact is that there was no way I would have paid their prices.

The event was a great idea poorly executed and to me, at any rate, a huge disappointment, although there were some notable highlights which I will mention in later posts. Not enough racing, poor grids in 3 of the 4 races on each day, demos which either didn't take place, or were too short or too long, too much repetition and loads of down time when it became thoroughly boring. I could go on, and yes, it was a first time but even so it should have been so much better. Whether or not the target was F1 fans to the exclusion of those who are interested in historic racing (although how can that be so given that the races were for historic cars?), I would expect to see the following:

1) A minimum of 6 races per day, but ideally 8, covering the periods of Grand Prix racing
2) Much bigger grids
3) Fewer but more appropriate demonstrations
4) Much better structure to the static displays. The Jody Scheckter cars (Wolf and Ferrari) were more or less hidden away in one of the pitlane garages the whole weekend, and they weren't the only ones.
5) Later starts, on both Saturday and Sunday. 9.00am starts I guess, are OK for warm ups but for demos for the spectating public, too early, especially for those having to travel a long way.
6) A comprehensive pricing review. If the above can be achieved, I still would not expect to pay more than £25 (at a pinch £30, if it became something really special). And if I have to pay £7.50 for a glossy brochure (the basic programme was free ..... if you exclude the entrants fee!!!) I would expect it have much more substance.

That's the basics but there's plenty more in the detail which I won't bore you with.

The two points I disagree with previous posters about was the comment that the Euroboss races were good and one that the 'Vanwall' demonstration was evocative. The Euroboss races were poorly supported (to be fair they have never had big fields), and although there were one or two dices, the Saturday race, reduced to 7 cars at the restart failed to hold my attention except for Jodie Hemming's attempt to take second place, and only Nigel Greensall's great drive through the field from the pitlane saved the second race on Sunday.

After the first lap, I couldn't watch the Vanwall demonstration on Sunday. It didn't look right and it didn't sound right. The idea of re-enacting the Tony Brooks and Stirling Moss handover at the 1957 British GP at Aintree was a good one ....... provided they used a real Vanwall, but they couldn't even manage that. I can't help feeling that we were all suckered into believing that a real Vanwall was to be used, including Brooks and Moss. Even the commentators (David Addison and Ian Titmarsh who did superbly well all weekend all things considered - proper professionals both) were surprised at the use of what they described as a modern road going 'pastiche' of a Vanwall. Although Moss and Brooks professed pleasure at driving the car, to put two of our greatest drivers and living legends in that car was to quote my son, born 25 years after that historic victory, 'bordering on the sacrilegious'.

I will attempt a pictorial review in the coming days and (mainly) focus on the good things because there were some good moments and some good cars to see.

[Andrew Kitson]

Thanks John, a good review.
I was otherwise engaged ( thankfully, having read this thread ) and cannot believe the high ticket price did not include entry to the museum - £7 extra I understand!

[Rob29]

Anyone know what happened to Janine Payne who took part in first practice for Hist F1(ex TGP) but was replaced by someone else in Arrows A4 #9 for the rest of the meeting??

[John Turner]

Sorry Rob, no idea, at the moment!

First to greet the eye on Saturday morning (and again on Sunday) was a line up of great pre war Alfas that formed the, and I quote, 'Vintage & Historic Grand Prix' Car Parade featuring the Alfa Romeo Marque'. No, I don't know either, but it was good to see them:-




One of the MGs from 'The Brooklands Era Remembered'!:-


A genuine ex works Talbot 105 team car:-

[ascarracinguk]

ill echo everyone elses views...the amazing thing for me is that the gp euro series event 2 weeks before had more grand prix cars than this event...and this is meant to be the biggest of the year!.....by my count on sunday there were 52 racing cars on track...thats 1 quid per car....not goood

[redshoes]

Well said John.

"Even if the idea was to target F1 fans who don't want to pay GP prices" ... considering Silverstone are doing a family ticket (2 adults + 2 kids) for £79 Fri or £139 Sat, Donington wasn't that much cheaper.

Maybe the organisers need to take a look at the VSCC's See Red event. That IS an historic race meeting but isn't ashamed to promote itself using Ferrari F1 cars.

[Vitesse]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

”

..... while the demonstration of pre-war Brooklands racing cars was given added drama when one car burst into flames. Amazingly the 1938 Frazer-Nash driven by Dubliner Tony Colley was repaired and back on track by the end of the day.

That Frazer-Nash has no Brooklands history at all It did win the handicap race at the 1938 Cork GP meeting though.

Originally Posted by allenbrown

”
Clemar Bucci from Argentina, who first travelled from South America in the late 1940s, was perhaps the last person alive to be able to personally recount experiences of racing with the legendary drivers such as Nuvolari and Varzi, as well as his compatriot Fangio.

Okay, he didn't race Fangio, but Hans Rüesch - whom God preserve - certainly raced against Nuvolari and Varzi! And what about Paul Pietsch? His career overlapped El Chueco's and he's also still with us.

[John Turner]

Note the three different 'snorkel' intake lengths on the 3 Cooper Bristols:-


The Stutz Black Hawk towers over them:-


'Tickling' the massive SU on the supercharged ERA of Peter Mann. Described in the programme as ERA 4, presumably it is either R4A or R4D. I'm afraid I'm no expert on these cars:-


Drainpipe exhaust on Julian Majzub's Indy Sunbeam:-

[John Turner]

Mario Andretti was at the event on Friday and Saturday. I was in the right place when he arrived on Saturday morning, and got in a small queue to get his autograph. I was undoubtedly the oldest in that queue but hey, it's not everyday you get the chance of a legend signing your programme.

He demonstrated the Gold Leaf Lotus in the morning and here he is emerging from the cockpit:-


Very pleased with this shot snatched whilst he was surrounded by a mass of photographers, microphones, and members of Team Classic Lotus:-


Sadly, he did not fare so well in the Ferrari 312B which broke down on the first demo lap, at the approach to Coppice:-

[Charlies]

I was interested in going until I saw the ludicrous pricing. Fundamentally it isn't a bad idea given the presence of the GP collection, but from the reviews (thanks for the info, especially John) it was poorly executed.

Perhaps they can do better next year, but given the advertising costs and poor crowds it can't have made money.

[John Turner]

A few more from pit and paddock. I will put some track images up, eventually!

[Vitesse]

Originally Posted by Sheila M

We pulled out all the stops on that one. Special thanks must go to the two Minardi mechanics who dressed in Vanwall overalls, one donned a cloth cap and it was only later that we thought that they should have had lit fags dangling out of the corner of their mouths to make it TRULY authentic!

I don't think you'd ever have seen a Vanwall mechanic with a fag in his mouth. GAV and David York were sticklers for presentation - they'd learned from Neubauer.

You might get away with it for a Cooper, maybe, or Lotus in their early days. Gordini for certain

[gungadan]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Maybe the organisers need to take a look at the VSCC's See Red event. That IS an historic race meeting but isn't ashamed to promote itself using Ferrari F1 cars.

I'm perhaps biased, being a VSCC member, but agree totally. Much better organised, bigger crowds and full grids.

The only problem I think the the See-Red organisers have is that, because of the name, people assume it's predominantly a Ferrari focused event which is far from the case. Chatting to a spectator at GPLive and one at VSCC Cadwell on Sunday, who had been at Donington the day before, this seemed to be a common misconception

[amier]

Originally Posted by pont420r

Anyone going to see the GP live event at Donington Park? entry fee is a little steep!! £50 Sunday makes it a very expensive day, mainly made up of demonstations, being an enthusiast of historic cars I was mainly interested in going to watch the TGP and Euroboss race.
Looks like I'll perhaps only make it for Qualifying Friday

Is it worth paying £50 for Sunday? or are we just paying for named faces including Martin Brundel, Stirling Moss, and the Red Bull teams fee?

Few years ago I went to watch the Jordan Teams event at Doninton andt that was an exellent day now where near the ticket price of £50

Yeah I remember that was something like £20 and well worth it. Ahh was amazing seeing the Jordan 191 again!!

[gungadan]

Originally Posted by John Turner

1) A minimum of 6 races per day, but ideally 8, covering the periods of Grand Prix racing
2) Much bigger grids
3) Fewer but more appropriate demonstrations
4) Much better structure to the static displays. The Jody Scheckter cars (Wolf and Ferrari) were more or less hidden away in one of the pitlane garages the whole weekend, and they weren't the only ones.
5) Later starts, on both Saturday and Sunday. 9.00am starts I guess, are OK for warm ups but for demos for the spectating public, too early, especially for those having to travel a long way.
6) A comprehensive pricing review. If the above can be achieved, I still would not expect to pay more than £25 (at a pinch £30, if it became something really special). And if I have to pay £7.50 for a glossy brochure (the basic programme was free ..... if you exclude the entrants fee!!!) I would expect it have much more substance.

Couldn't have put my own feelings better myself. I was also lucky enough to be supplied with a media pass and quite frankly couldn't believe the ticket prices.

One positive. I thought filming the races and showing them on the big screen was a good idea, although I imagine that was quite costly.

[lifeof]

The car owned by Peter Mann is not a real ERA. It was built from ERA bits by Anthony Mayman and is known throughout the 'business' as AJM1. R4A is owned by Jost Wildbolz and R4D, the Raymond Mays car, is owned by Mac Hulbert

[David McKinney]

Originally Posted by lifeof

The car owned by Peter Mann is not a real ERA. It was built from ERA bits by Anthony Mayman and is known throughout the 'business' as AJM1. R4A is owned by Jost Wildbolz and R4D, the Raymond Mays car, is owned by Mac Hulbert

Mayman's ERA was R4D
The AJM in AJM1 stands for Tony Merrick

[John Turner]

Thanks for the clarification lifeof and David; that's one for my notebook!

Now for a bit of modern stuff; sorry I'm not starting another thread outside of the historics just to cover this, so please bear with me!

One of the highlights of the weekend for me was the superb display by Ammamuller of the 2005 RBR on Saturday. He was chucking it around and clearly enjoying himself, something he managed to convey to those few spectators watching. Wheelies, spins, 'donuts' and a few quick laps really got our attention. You got the impression that he didn't want to stop. Sadly this was pulled on Sunday - Politics, money? Who knows, but the Sunday spectators missed a treat:-




Both days saw some reasonably quick laps by John Watson in the Team Ireland A1GP car. Sounded good, too, although I'd find the shape something that would take a bit of getting used to:-

[gachjoel]

I guess this is not the way the ferrari wanted to get back to the pit lane

[Racer 35]

Thanks, John, for the review and the pictures; The one of Mario is a gem.

I'm soooo sad that this meeting/event/whatever was so badly done. Donington is my local track, the place where I learned to drive, and where I had my first race; so I do rather have a soft spot for it. However, they really do seem to have got this one VERY wrong.
Hopefully the organisers can afford to learn from the mistakes; and boy do they have alot to learn. Weird that they didn't take a leaf from the excellent 'See Red' meeting held on their very own track, though.