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View Poll Results: Who do you think was the best driver of the 2014 season?
Lewis Hamilton 28 31.82%
Nico Rosberg 1 1.14%
Daniel Ricciardo 46 52.27%
Valtteri Bottas 4 4.55%
Sebastian Vettel 0 0%
Fernando Alonso 4 4.55%
Felipe Massa 1 1.14%
Jenson Button 1 1.14%
Nico Hulkenberg 0 0%
Sergio Perez 0 0%
Kevin Magnussen 1 1.14%
Kimi Raikkonen 0 0%
Jean-Eric Vergne 0 0%
Romain Grosjean 0 0%
Daniil Kvyat 1 1.14%
Pastor Maldonado 0 0%
Jules Bianchi 1 1.14%
Adrian Sutil 0 0%
Marcus Ericsson 0 0%
Esteban Gutierrez 0 0%
Max Chilton 0 0%
Kamui Kobayashi 0 0%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 19 Dec 2014, 00:25 (Ref:3486272)   #51
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I agree BJ, but multiple World Champions like Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet are never placed in the icon category, any more than Alain Prost (with four titles) is, and I feel that unless Seb does something spectacular for Ferrari, he will go the same way. There have been many very good and successful drivers who history does not favour. I have seen all of the 'icons' listed, race, and can understand why they have achieved their measure of fame, there name is never forgotten. However, being a WC does not ensure a place in the pantheon of 'greats'.

Fate is fickle I suppose.

Kind regards,

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Really? We don't see each other very often then, do we?
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 07:36 (Ref:3486352)   #52
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Really? We don't see each other very often then, do we?
Lost me there, Terror, I'm afraid (:Shrug) ................... or!


Surely Mrs. bauble hasn't joined Tenths????


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Old 19 Dec 2014, 11:27 (Ref:3486402)   #53
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Lost me there, Terror, I'm afraid (:Shrug) ................... or!


Surely Mrs. bauble hasn't joined Tenths????


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If you believe that

"Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet are never placed in the icon category, any more than Alain Prost (with four titles)"

then obviously you haven't spent much time with me....
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 14:21 (Ref:3486429)   #54
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Originally Posted by Teretonga View Post
If you believe that

"Brabham, Stewart, Lauda, Piquet are never placed in the icon category, any more than Alain Prost (with four titles)"

then obviously you haven't spent much time with me....
I have high regard for these chaps Terror, however, while they are respected, I would argue that they are not truly 'icons' in the way that Clark and Senna have become. I do not in all honesty give this as my opinion, just what over 60 years of following the sport has made me realise.

Being regarded as 'iconic' is not merely the result of achievement, but a little something extra and unquantifiable. I am no fan of either Clark or Senna, but have to acknowledge that they are revered by many.

Let me be clear that nothing in any of my posts on this thread should be taken as criticism of any of the drivers mentioned, I simply wondered if Hamilton, Alonso or any current driver would be classified in the same way. I am sure all with have their following, but whether history will raise them above the average is not mine to know.

Always interesting to get other points of view, so ......

Bob.
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 15:03 (Ref:3486446)   #55
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the aforementioned names are only "icons" because not enough was known about them at the time for people to grow resentful of them. nowadays people know so much about their potential heroes that they soon realise they're just human beings and not some kind of demi-god like the "icons" you refer to have become.
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 15:56 (Ref:3486464)   #56
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I have high regard for these chaps Terror, however, while they are respected, I would argue that they are not truly 'icons' in the way that Clark and Senna have become. I do not in all honesty give this as my opinion, just what over 60 years of following the sport has made me realise.

Being regarded as 'iconic' is not merely the result of achievement, but a little something extra and unquantifiable. I am no fan of either Clark or Senna, but have to acknowledge that they are revered by many.

Let me be clear that nothing in any of my posts on this thread should be taken as criticism of any of the drivers mentioned, I simply wondered if Hamilton, Alonso or any current driver would be classified in the same way. I am sure all with have their following, but whether history will raise them above the average is not mine to know.

Always interesting to get other points of view, so ......

Bob.
Moss and Villeneuve are highly revered but neither was WDC.
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 16:02 (Ref:3486467)   #57
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Moss and Villeneuve are highly revered but neither was WDC.
I did include Stirling in my original list of 'icons.'

Bella you are a cynic.
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 16:15 (Ref:3486472)   #58
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Bella you are a cynic.
i think that's considered a compliment in the f1 forum

alonso's maybe the only current day racer stumbling into iconic territory? i mean, he's got that "if anyone can, alonso can" reputation, he's a big old drama queen which is practically an obligatory part of being an icon, and he plays it up with the fans too.
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Old 19 Dec 2014, 16:22 (Ref:3486477)   #59
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I did include Stirling in my original list of 'icons.'

Bella you are a cynic.
So you did, otherwise Villeneuve is way up there.
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Old 20 Dec 2014, 01:14 (Ref:3486597)   #60
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i think that's considered a compliment in the f1 forum

alonso's maybe the only current day racer stumbling into iconic territory? i mean, he's got that "if anyone can, alonso can" reputation, he's a big old drama queen which is practically an obligatory part of being an icon, and he plays it up with the fans too.
I am very much hoping that Jenson will hose down Alonso's reputation, Alonso has never had a really decent experienced team mate.
May be way wrong about Kimi, but I think he lacks motivation.

Roll on 2015.
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Old 21 Dec 2014, 10:34 (Ref:3486858)   #61
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For me Stewart and Prost are definitely up alongside those other 'icons'; Lauda likewise for other reasons, and pretty certain that most Aussies have Brabham on a pedestal (rightly) and revere him. Of the current crop, I always though Alonso would be up there but after the debacle at McLaren and the years pfaffing around in a Ferrari which was mostly not good enough but when it was (just about) the team managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, you wonder whether it will be remembered how good he was. I, too would love to see Jenson match him, but then I've always thought JB underrated.

Incidentally the obvious problem with this poll is that we only get to vote for the one we thought was best, not the next 9, so you don't really get the full picture. If it was possible it would be good to do one where we could award points 10, 9 , 8 etc to get our combined view!

Edit - PS apologies - Thread title identifies this difference - must remember to read them more carefully . Would still be good to do the above though to get that outcome!

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Old 21 Dec 2014, 12:02 (Ref:3486867)   #62
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Despite the words of wisdom from various luminaries of the site, and even though I can recognise the talent and achievements of some of the names mentioned, I still maintain that only certain drivers can be described as 'icons'.

As I have stated this is not my personal definition, I am not ascribing the 'icon' tag to anyone myself, it is I believe history and public perception that gives certain people that particular image.

This is not about results or rankings, let's face it Moss was never World Champion, Clark ONLY won two titles, but their names still stand out from their contemporaries, as do Fangio and Senna.

I suppose that within the ranks of fans Stewart, Brabham et al may be iconic, but to the world at large are little known.

My personal all time favourite driver was Mike Hawthorn, certainly an icon to me, but not in the same way as the name Stirling Moss has captured public imagination.

Of the current crop only Lewis Hamilton has achieved the sort of publicity away from the Grand Prix scene that could see him remembered in years to come in the same way.

I AM NOT PUTTING ANYONE DOWN, MERELY STATING WHAT TO ME, IS OBVIOUS. But what do I know?

After thought; Why not make a case for your own icons if you disagree with my list?

Cheers,

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Old 21 Dec 2014, 18:11 (Ref:3486929)   #63
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Despite the words of wisdom from various luminaries of the site, and even though I can recognise the talent and achievements of some of the names mentioned, I still maintain that only certain drivers can be described as 'icons'.

As I have stated this is not my personal definition, I am not ascribing the 'icon' tag to anyone myself, it is I believe history and public perception that gives certain people that particular image.

This is not about results or rankings, let's face it Moss was never World Champion, Clark ONLY won two titles, but their names still stand out from their contemporaries, as do Fangio and Senna.

I suppose that within the ranks of fans Stewart, Brabham et al may be iconic, but to the world at large are little known.

My personal all time favourite driver was Mike Hawthorn, certainly an icon to me, but not in the same way as the name Stirling Moss has captured public imagination.

Of the current crop only Lewis Hamilton has achieved the sort of publicity away from the Grand Prix scene that could see him remembered in years to come in the same way.

I AM NOT PUTTING ANYONE DOWN, MERELY STATING WHAT TO ME, IS OBVIOUS. But what do I know?

After thought; Why not make a case for your own icons if you disagree with my list?

Cheers,

Bauble.
When you put parameters on what you mean by icon then it becomes clearer about what is being expressed.

If it means that someone who is 'iconic in terms of public perception and known to the general public at large, someone whose name is a household name, not just in their home nation but in general terms around the world, someone whose name has entered into general public usage as synonymous with 'great driver' then the ones you mention like Fangio, Clark, Senna, Schumacher become iconic because they were recognised as one of the greatest or the greatest of their era, regardless of whether they were actually 'great' or not.

Yes the names you mention are iconic in those terms .
The debate about 'how great' and who was actually 'greater' then would follow.
Iconic then is attributed on 'historical popularity' or entering the general consciousness of the general public or 'world audience at large'

But whether that means they were the 'greatest' or truly 'great' is where the debate begins.
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Old 21 Dec 2014, 19:17 (Ref:3486948)   #64
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Thank you Terror, you have summed up most succinctly the impression I was endeavouring to convey,
To be honest I foolishly thought that most people here would appreciate the use of the term 'Icon'. I should have been clearer.

That Crusty Old Git, Bauble.
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Old 22 Dec 2014, 02:00 (Ref:3487047)   #65
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Old 23 Dec 2014, 19:47 (Ref:3487466)   #66
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Stewart is an all-time legend and icon in my book, one of the greatest drivers of his era and someone who will always be remembered in that way. I think that was a strange era though. You had Rindt dying before he was crowned, the most revered driver of the era was probably Peterson who was never champion, while a double champ like Fittipaldi never hit the heights in terms of being seen as one of the true "greats". True in the 80s too, with some comparatively ordinary World Champions (Jones, Rosberg, even Piquet) and in Mansell, an "all-time great" who tended to be more the nearly man.

I think it's more clear-cut now. Alonso, double Champion but if anything has caught the imagination more with his exploits in the Ferrari, all-time great. Hamilton, the wonder rookie and all-time British number 1, multiple champ, all-time great. Vettel, four in a row, nobody can deny him a place alongside the other two.

Those three are definites. Too soon to say on Ricciardo, by far.
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Old 23 Dec 2014, 23:59 (Ref:3487535)   #67
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Jackie Stewart is a total icon and still very much in the public eye. He was on this year's BBC Sports Personality of the Year Award, presenting a trophy.
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Old 24 Dec 2014, 09:45 (Ref:3487626)   #68
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Agreed, whoever else you have in mind, Stewart surely has to fit in alongside the list that Bob submitted. I would add Prost too, so:-

Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Senna, Prost are the standouts even though, one of those was certainly not one of my favourites. Of course if you want to go back further, there was Nuvolari and ....... and ......?
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Old 24 Dec 2014, 12:00 (Ref:3487658)   #69
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Agreed, whoever else you have in mind, Stewart surely has to fit in alongside the list that Bob submitted. I would add Prost too, so:-

Fangio, Moss, Clark, Stewart, Senna, Prost are the standouts even though, one of those was certainly not one of my favourites.

Come on John, get off Prost's back........
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Old 24 Dec 2014, 21:29 (Ref:3487758)   #70
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I am very much hoping that Jenson will hose down Alonso's reputation, Alonso has never had a really decent experienced team mate.
May be way wrong about Kimi, but I think he lacks motivation.

Roll on 2015.
To be fair, Fisichella, Trulli and Massa were all good, race-winning drivers. I think Trulli is a bit of a blot on his record if anything - he was probably the quicker of the two by a nose.
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Old 26 Dec 2014, 11:06 (Ref:3487935)   #71
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Come on John, get off Prost's back........
LOL. I know you know exactly who I mean, but don't want to reopen that debate on this thread which has already gone a bit O/T!
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Old 26 Dec 2014, 11:31 (Ref:3487939)   #72
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Trulli admitted he was more of an Alain Prost, which he also admitted didn't work during the refuelling era
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Old 27 Dec 2014, 21:22 (Ref:3488144)   #73
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LOL. I know you know exactly who I mean, but don't want to reopen that debate on this thread which has already gone a bit O/T!
Yeah, but it's more fun than the original thread idea.....
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Old 28 Dec 2014, 01:39 (Ref:3488181)   #74
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Yeah, but it's more fun than the original thread idea.....
The 10-Tenth's affect .
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Old 29 Dec 2014, 07:50 (Ref:3488363)   #75
Teretonga
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Stewart is an all-time legend and icon in my book, one of the greatest drivers of his era and someone who will always be remembered in that way. I think that was a strange era though. You had Rindt dying before he was crowned, the most revered driver of the era was probably Peterson who was never champion, while a double champ like Fittipaldi never hit the heights in terms of being seen as one of the true "greats". True in the 80s too, with some comparatively ordinary World Champions (Jones, Rosberg, even Piquet) and in Mansell, an "all-time great" who tended to be more the nearly man.

I think it's more clear-cut now. Alonso, double Champion but if anything has caught the imagination more with his exploits in the Ferrari, all-time great. Hamilton, the wonder rookie and all-time British number 1, multiple champ, all-time great. Vettel, four in a row, nobody can deny him a place alongside the other two.

Those three are definites. Too soon to say on Ricciardo, by far.
That's an interesting comment about Fittapaldi. he won two titles, one when he was very young at 23 but then won again two years later for McLaren. The Copersucar project for the brothers team didn't do a lot for him and never really worked and that probably sifted him from the forefront to the rear of the midfield in peoples consciousness.

Which is a point I made earlier. Being an icon is very subjective. Clark and to a lessor extent Stewart are /were icons to me because of Scottish heritage in my bloodline. My attitude toward Stewart has changed but when he was at BRM and Tyrrell, yes, he was an idol.

To people in Australia and New Zealand Brabham was a name everyone recognised, and down under he had extraordinary public recognition in both countries.
Everyone would have recognised the Brabham name in the 60's and into the 80's. In New Zealand at that time he was more 'iconic' than McLaren was.

So going back to Fittapaldi, returning to America and winning Indy and Indycar titles made him a real icon of South American racing drivers and a great in American eyes, more so than Senna.....

So really 'iconic' is quite subjective and often owes more to popular recognition within a region or culture than most of us realise. Yes you have to be very good but who you are, where you come from and where you race all make a significant contribution besides just how 'good' you were.
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