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Old 4 Apr 2017, 12:00 (Ref:3723705)   #26
Peter Mallett
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Tell them to keep it open and keep looking.
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 12:07 (Ref:3723708)   #27
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Is you car a 1600 TA 40? Do you apply for Group 1 or Group 2?
In your homologation form you have several parts homologated in Grp2. The evidences you have already collected should be from cars used in period during international races (check if Spa 24 Hours are considered as international). The mods must have been legally used in period.
As suggested by Peter, be patient this forum is famous …
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 13:18 (Ref:3723716)   #28
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Yes Gerard...it's a 1600 TA40.....and I, like a few forum subscribers before me quickly realised we were going to get nowhere with the Gp1.5 regs that the BSCC ran in the 70s.......

......like the horizon, they are more of a concept than a reality!

So I suggested we HTP the car as a standard Gp 1....and we put on the cast manifold on, the 14'' steels etc, and took a load more photos, and we get this back....
First you say, this is an old BSCC car, a Group 1½ car. Then you don't understand, why we don't accept it as a group 1 car.
If this is an original 1979 race car, where is then the homologation form from period ?
I thought you could HTP any car in any group category, provided you adhered to the rules and regs of the stated group....
After all, like most tin top race cars, this car was originally a road car.
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Old 4 Apr 2017, 13:58 (Ref:3723722)   #29
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I see … Well I think I see ! Your homologation form is 5704 then. If you put your Celica under its Group 1 form your ASN shouldn't refuse the HTP. This case is clearly identified in the appendix K, you can then ask officially the FIA some help or probably someone on the forum will help you directly.
Then, there are rules and then… there are rules. Always bear in mind that its up to any organiser to put any car in any category during its meeting.
Several options: or you have an HTP for a Group 1 and race it compliant on a Group 1,5 grid and you won't be competitive. Or you have it homologated in Group 2 and negotiate with each organiser to race with the others BTCC cars or Grp 1,5 whatever they are called. If you're lucky the BTCC form your car had in period is slightly less developed or equivalent to a Group 2.
It seems you have enough documents to bring clues of the modifications used legally in period during international meetings. Last year I drove my Capri under Group 1 form but had the surprise to be mixed with Grp 1,5. In this case you can do nothing but stay at home specially when the particular regulation says groupe 1 and affiliated… About this I would say its all my fault because I dont read carefully enough the different regulations.
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 16:12 (Ref:3724193)   #30
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I think you got an answer from the FIA or your MSA by now. The first page of your HTP should show category BTCC country GB. Is that correct Peter?
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Old 6 Apr 2017, 20:05 (Ref:3724227)   #31
Peter Mallett
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Yup. Mine is period 1977 to 1981 and the class is CT35/GB
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Old 7 Apr 2017, 04:32 (Ref:3724264)   #32
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Thanks Peter. It was obvious that the FIA should "open the doors" it was only a matter of time. Good news for some while the other will say "bother" or "WTF" as on usual!
I would say that now I will select the organiser more carefully (bad luck in France we have only one) and try to discuss with being more involved. Quite interesting!
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 14:12 (Ref:3942741)   #33
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Ahh, over two years later, we've finally got a finished engine....
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Which means we're up and running again with the Celica...which means we're hitting the HTP again.
Before we do, I'm wondering whether there's been any advancement in the way the FIA are viewing the so called Group 1.5 cars of the BSCC that ran during the 70s and very early 80s?
For instance, with the Celica we have a very standard Homologation form that has no mention of the tubular exhaust manifold and Weber carbs that we know it ran in period.
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 14:24 (Ref:3942744)   #34
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App J permitted those modifications. If you have a period photograph of the engine bay then it will assist. My Rover was one of the first to receive the HTP for group 1.5 and I used pics to demonstrate the carb set up.
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Old 25 Nov 2019, 14:30 (Ref:3942747)   #35
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As Peter says, like most things to do with HTPs, it will be up to you to prove that the mods were used.
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Old 26 Nov 2019, 09:33 (Ref:3942890)   #36
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Thanks gents....so just to get things straight....if, for instance, you were building a car to conform to the 1980 Touring Car regs (which are detailed in the Blue Book) and you wanted to run, and HTP the car with, a tubular manifold...…
…...you look at Section 4 (f) and it says "The exhaust manifold system is free after the manifold gasket"...…..you've STILL got to prove it ran with one.
Would this be a fair summary?
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Old 26 Nov 2019, 09:44 (Ref:3942891)   #37
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Originally Posted by MarkBev View Post
Thanks gents....so just to get things straight....if, for instance, you were building a car to conform to the 1980 Touring Car regs (which are detailed in the Blue Book) and you wanted to run, and HTP the car with, a tubular manifold...…
…...you look at Section 4 (f) and it says "The exhaust manifold system is free after the manifold gasket"...…..you've STILL got to prove it ran with one.
Would this be a fair summary?
All modifications will have to be detailed, I suggest and before you start the true HTP process, that you put a file together that matches the year of specification you are to claim with photographic evidence, period press articles if any and so on.

Modern testimonies may be considered but are of a lesser value according to the rulebook.
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Old 26 Nov 2019, 10:15 (Ref:3942897)   #38
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Mark, you're going to get sectioned soon with your obscure Japanese toy collection

If anyone can help Louis can.
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Old 26 Nov 2019, 11:21 (Ref:3942908)   #39
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Yeah, thanks Joe.....believe it not, there seems to be many more photographs of the Bellett that did just a few laps of qualifying in a single race 15 years previous to the Celica doing a whole series.

Which leads me on to a request.....as Duddha suggests....is there anyone on the forum who might have information or photos of either of the Hughes of Beaconsfield Celicas during their BSCC campaign in 1979 or 80? Or maybe point me in the right direction.
Meanwhile, I'm off to start preparing my Autozam AZ-1, can you have the engine finished by December Joe?
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