ACO Press Conference tommorow

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by deggis

http://www.lemans.org/24heuresdumans..._notoriete.pdf

Survey made in France, UK, Germany, USA and Japan.

"Which of the following car races are you interested in?"

F1 31,2%
Le Mans 19,4%
Dakar 18,2%
WRC 14,4%
Indianapolis 11,2%
NASCAR11,0%
Other 3,2%

While interesting, especially Japans #'s, that is not exactly the topic of my inquiry.


L.P.

[deggis]

But my post wasn't a reply to your post. I just posted it here because that's probably not worth a new thread.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by deggis

But my post wasn't a reply to your post. I just posted it here because that's probably not worth a new thread.

Fair enough.


L.P.

[AU N EGL]

Semi related - Speed TV started a Suvey only to find the NASCAR was number 3 and loosing in the spectator pole.

F1 and ALMS were higher.

Speed TV dropped the pole and changed the questions to better suite NASCAR sponsors

Go figure

[TRuss]

Why would anybody think that a hybrid prototype would be slower? Plus it seems to me that making the tire changes slower would hinder the hybrid as it would probably stop less often or take on less fuel. Making a very quick stop a little bit slower.

[Purist]

Why would a hybrid be slower? Batteries are heavy.

[Nick6]

I hope ALMS doesn't go with the whole 1 airgun rule. It would make for some boring sprint races. A car in the pits would probably lose up to 2 laps under this air gun rule. Another thing is if this eliminates the pit advantage for open top prototypes then what would be the point in running a open top car?

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Purist

Why would a hybrid be slower? Batteries are heavy.

And I'm sure there would be restrictor allowances to make a power-to-weight ratio standard for the cars to be balanced rather than a restrictor due to engine size. Also, aren't most of the petrol cars running with ballast to meet the weight minimums, I know it's not near what a set of race-type batteries would be but it's still less than the current leaders in the diesel cars. Think Audi is just under the minimum weight and uses ballast this year as well.

[Purist]

Ballast gives you a fundamental advantage though in that you can put that weight more or less where you want to to get the lowest center of gravity possible.

[broadrun96]

And the batteries would conceivably be used as ballast in the same way and would def be mounted low as possible, prob accessed from underneath and cooled through underbody or openings low on the car

[Speed-King]

I think the placement of the batteries depends on how maintenance heavy they are. The Penske Spyders had a huge problem replacing a regular car battery at Sebring last year, because it was hard to reach. If one has to replace hybrid batteries -which might after all happen during a twenty four hour race, it would be better to place them somewhere, where they can be easily reached.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Semi related - Speed TV started a Suvey only to find the NASCAR was number 3 and loosing in the spectator pole.

F1 and ALMS were higher.

Speed TV dropped the pole and changed the questions to better suite NASCAR sponsors

Go figure

Serious?

[sssssssss]

Some comentators at Eurosport said it will still be compulsory for the LMP1s to be closed-cockpit cars from 2010. Is that true or areen't they up to date with the fact that ACO gave up that idea?

[deggis]

Especially if it was Carlton Kirby who said that, don't trust him.

[V8thunderfan]

Closed top LMP1 from 2010 was the way I understood it to be can anybody shed any more light on that?

[TRuss]

Regarding the potential speed of hybrids I have a few points of why I don't think they would be any slower. First. Some may disagree currently, but there are attempts at least to keep the cars equal despite differences in powerplant choices. Second, lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries are substantially lighter than nickel metal hydride while having greater capacity, and more volts per cell. Third. Said battery technology and brushless motor technology (both prevelant in the model airplane world) are about to really take off, now that racing is about to become involved in their development. Last. I would imagine that most, especially Toyota would use capacitors instead of a mass of batteries like they did a year ago in the 24 Hours of Tokachi (spelling?) where they won handily. I think by nearly 20 laps. I know the two races are quite different. None the less, I feel the hybrids will be competetive. In fact I feel confident in saying that once the hybrids have a couple three years of development that they will receive the greater performance restrictions. There is a lot of potential there.

[johntt]

Originally Posted by V8thunderfan

Closed top LMP1 from 2010 was the way I understood it to be can anybody shed any more light on that?

They have gone back on that after Pescarolo started complaining (which can understand).

The way i read it we'll have three Proto classes; P1EVO will be closed top only for manufacturers with front end resemblance to the road cars (think Porsche 911 GT1, Mercedes CLK-GTR).

P1 will continue to exist alongside EVO in its current form with open and closed cars peritted. Both EVO and P1 classes will be kept equal with each other (like LM-P900 and LM-GTP were in the early 2000s)

P2 will remain as is. If it ain't broke don't fix it

I reckon we'll se single GT class. What I think we'll see is the mnaufacturers running a customer GT programme and using that to fund their EVO programme. What I am reassured about is the ACO getting Gordon Murray involved in the EVO programme.

[deggis]

IMHO it is unclear whether there are going to be two top classes. I guess we'll see that in November when ACO releases more specifics. Only thing sure is that 2010 will be the introduction year of the new class.

[broadrun96]

November will be a month NOT TO MISS. It sounds like there could be wholesale rules changes, at least rules tweaks in every class.
--LM GTP (evo) prob will be clarified to entice AMR/GM to come play, maybe MB and Porsche (anything strong enough for them to GT1 homologate?) Possibly bigger restrictors and a weight break/wider tires to help with COG or handling issues from the taller GT engine.
--LM diesel rules tweaked, even with Pug not winning. Think they have to be pegged back some to entice the non-diesel builders (AMR, GM, Dome/Toyota and Acura to bring their new toys to play) Whether that is displacement adjustment or bigger restrictors will take somebody more clairvoyant than me. But I'm pretty sure it wont be fewer cylinders or less boost, the petrol cars seemed to be as fast top end so hp isn't as big a thing as getting the torque in line with the petrol cars, although I'm sure they are all down on hp to the diesels.
--LMP2 could have a rules tweak targeted at booting "factory" teams from the class and making P1 more enticing. I'm guessing they want Porsche out but how to get them out but keep teams like Dyson or the 2 in the LMS is the trick. Also how do you classify an engine builder like Mazda(AER) or MG that don't build their own chassis, or the small teams like the Zytek P2 car?
--GT1 cost reductions if not elimination
--GT could be combined if the FIA works with the ACO. I know thats a long shot but GT2 cars with a little more range in the rules seems to be a good idea.

It almost looks like what the ACO wants is a predominantly prototype field, but I hope they aren't looking at eliminating the completely. Personally love seeing the GTs on track and don't think the US can support ALMS prototypes and FIA GT type series both.

[cdsvg]

Originally Posted by deggis

IMHO it is unclear whether there are going to be two top classes.

My guess is that LMP1 and LMP1 Evo will, as far as the racing goes, be one class, and to the casual spectator this will appear to be the case. Like the restrictor size/tyre size/min weight tweaking in the GT classes, "evo" cars using more roadcar-like bodywork will receive restrictor/weight breaks to put them on a level playing field with the traditional P1 cars.

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by cdsavage

My guess is that LMP1 and LMP1 Evo will, as far as the racing goes, be one class, and to the casual spectator this will appear to be the case. Like the restrictor size/tyre size/min weight tweaking in the GT classes, "evo" cars using more roadcar-like bodywork will receive restrictor/weight breaks to put them on a level playing field with the traditional P1 cars.

I agree. Did not the ACO mention they will keep the FOUR class structure?

LMP1 and LMP1 Evo as ppl call it are all LMP1. I dont think there will be an Evo or GTP class persay.

[AX lover]

Isn't it true that a 'hybrid' doesn't got to have huge batteries? There are different forms of hybrid cars. A KERS system is also some kind of hybrid. And maybe they can use supercapacitors.

There a two 'hybrid' racecars that I know of and that are the Toyota Supra HV-R and the Gumpert Apollo that competed in the 24h of the Nurburgring.

Does anybody know the exact specs of those cars?

[AX lover]

The Supra HV-R is a hybrid race car based on the Super GT Supra jointly developed by Toyota and Toyota Team SARD. The four-wheel drive HV-R combines a 4.5 L V8 (480 hp) from its Super GT 3UZ-FE engine, a rear-axle-mounted electric motor (200 hp), and two front in-wheel electric motors (13 hp each) to generate over 700 hp (520 kW). The car weighs 2,380 lb.[23]

The Denso SARD Supra HV-R became the first hybrid race car in history to win a race when Toyota Team SARD took first place in the Tokachi 24-hour, a Super Taikyu race, on July 16, 2007. The car completed 616 laps, 19 laps ahead of the second-place finisher.[

In April 2008, Gumpert announced they would enter a hybrid version of the Apollo in the 2008 24 Hours Nürburgring piloted by 2004 winner Dirk Müller and ex Formula One Racer Heinz-Harald Frentzen. The Apollo will use a 3.8 litre petrol engine coupled with a 100kW electric motor. The car will also have the ability to recharge the battery under braking.

Found it

[AU N EGL]

My guess and it is only a guess, that any hybrid powered ACO race cars will follow the FIA hybrid engine deisgn in F1.

Several Months ago in an ACO press release IIRC the spokesperson mentioned that could be too many different types of hybrid engines. And the ACO only has a small scrutineering staff. And a single hybrid engine design would be best to work with. At that time no hybrid plans were submitted to teh ACO.

This might be where the current thought of the ACO in working with the FIA for hybrid power engines as the FIA has started the process for F1.

This way there is one standard design. Not that there cound not be many many ideas, but too many ideas would be difficult to quantity or set technical and power standards.

[daallo]

It's stupid to have an amateur category at the 24 hours of Le Mans...