[Team] Changes at Ferrari

[321Go]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

Unfortunately, the press release, that you linked to, does not seem to mention motor-racing at all..

It wasn't meant to!

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But let us assume that your figure €10 million is correct.

Incorrect. Read again.

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Incorrect. Read again.

Some people really do seem to revel in pedantry!

When I responded I was fully aware that you originally quoted 10 million pounds sterling; but, as all the other figures that Ferrari mention are in Euros, I took the decision to interpret your figures as being Euros.

However, the nit-picking does not invalidate nor, in my opinion, detract from, my original response, nor to my post that first brought up this potential (please note the use of the word potential) stumbling block for Ferrari's racing activities.

[wolfhound]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

But let us assume that your figure €10 million is correct. It would be natural for commercial investors, many with their own shareholders/policyholders to appease, would wonder whether the huge budget that is swallowed up to produce a measly 10million profit. These days, investors seem to be more interested in seeing their capital returned (as opposed to annual dividends) and general value for money.

Motor-racing and the above are really not good bed fellows.

With the exception that proves the rule Bernie Eccelstone & CVC who seem to make billions from motorracing.

[Paradise City]

Here's an excerpt from Saward on how well Ferrari does from F1.

http://joesaward.wordpress.com/2014/...se-gracefully/

However, if Montezemolo is going to argue for better sport, he needs to look at the situation he is arguing from. Lest we forget, Ferrari has negotiated a financial deal with the Formula One group that means that no less than five percent of the total revenues of the sport go straight to Maranello. And this is before prize money is even calculated. It is not easy to put that into real numbers because the revenues of the sport of hidden away in accounting gobbledygook, but the accepted number for 2013 is around $1.7 billion, following on from $1.5 billion in 2011 and $1.6 billion in 2012.

Whip out a calculator and this will tell you that Ferrari must be getting around $85 million just for turning up each year at the races. The fact that this is not widely known is because two and a half percent of the money comes from the half of the revenues that is allotted to the teams; and the other two and half percent comes from the money that goes to the Formula One group, with all of its financial gymnastics involving loans, dividends and so on. This is why the Formula One group now says that the teams are getting more than half the money. There are believed to be special “incentive” deals for Red Bull and Mercedes as well although these seem to have been fixed payments to get them to sign up to the bilateral agreements that have replaced the old Concorde Agreement.

Now, add the $85 million to the usual share of the prize money “schedules”, the payments from which depend on how well a team does in the Constructors’ Championship – which range from around $100 million for the winner to $50 million for the 10th placed team – and one arrives at a situation where one can see that Ferrari always comes out on top in terms of finance, even if it finishes last in the Constructors’ Championship!

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

With the exception that proves the rule Bernie Eccelstone & CVC who seem to make billions from motorracing.

Whether one loves or loathes him, one has to, and admire might be the wrong word but, certainly acknowledge him for his entrepreneurial skills. He has built a mini-empire from the most humblest of beginnings, and along the way, constructed what can really be described as a cash-cow of the hugest proportions.

And the comment about strange bed-fellows does still stand, because part of the deal that was imposed on CVC by their own investors was that CVC has to off-load their total holding in Formula by a certain date. That date is, comparatively, approaching swiftly; from memory, it is within the next couple of years or so.

[321Go]

A new sponsor for Scuderia Ferrari.


Hmmm...

[MGDavid]

Originally Posted by 321Go

A new sponsor for Scuderia Ferrari.


Hmmm...

so getting the enemy on-side before their own team launch?

[Casper]

I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.

[Paradise City]

Reminiscent of NART.

[321Go]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

so getting the enemy on-side before their own team launch?

Wouldn't exactly call them the enemy. If Haas and Ferrari partner up, Haas F1 will never challenge Ferrari for wins. If Haas start to look like they're getting close, Ferrari will give them 2nd rate engines which will be down on power. It's just the Ferrari way of doing business.

[Teretonga]

Originally Posted by MGDavid

so getting the enemy on-side before their own team launch?

Look at the talk of customer cars and Bernie's reference to third cars....
If it goes to third cars or satellite teams, Haas will be the satellite team, customer car team or third entry....

Haas will have his participation and entry into the sport, Ferrari will have an American partner from their most important market and remember the Ferrari team principal is the former director of US operations.

Is Luca looking at the bottom line or not... ?

[kurski]

Italy's Autosprint reports that Luca Marmorini, Ferrari's engine chief, is "in danger" of being ousted. Correspondent Alberto Antonini said that if the rumours are true, Marmorini's younger deputy Mattia Mariz would step in.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Casper

I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine.

Very smart idea if you ask me...

Originally Posted by MGDavid

so getting the enemy on-side before their own team launch?

Not an enemy if you want Ferrari power units is it, and you agree to become a junior Ferrari team.. Win win situation for both parties involved...

[wolfhound]

Luca Marmorini has now departed the Ferrari engine dept. restructre. I wonder who will be the next to go?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115224

I wonder how long it will take to get everybody working together?

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Luca Marmorini has now departed the Ferrari engine dept. restructre. I wonder who will be the next to go?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115224

I wonder how long it will take to get everybody working together?

Perhaps not long when there's only two of them left!

[chunterer]

Well there's been lots of denials about Fry for a few months now..

I didn't understand it when he allegedly handed in his notice and it wasn't accepted?

[321Go]

Luca Marmorini "left" Ferrari almost a month ago.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by 321Go

Luca Marmorini "left" Ferrari almost a month ago.

You were dinning with him when he told you that then...

[Casper]

Originally Posted by wolfhound

Luca Marmorini has now departed the Ferrari engine dept. restructre. I wonder who will be the next to go?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115224

I wonder how long it will take to get everybody working together?

After the MS retirement I wrote that the team would fal from grace and slide into the wilderness as it is not in the Italian DNA to be organised work as a true team. I recently read a small bit on the Mexican Road Racing done in the early 1950's and the chaos that Ferrarri used to operate in during those races and it is almost like their gene pool does not allow anything but chaos and nothing has changed over all those years.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Casper

After the MS retirement I wrote that the team would fal from grace and slide into the wilderness as it is not in the Italian DNA to be organised work as a true team. I recently read a small bit on the Mexican Road Racing done in the early 1950's and the chaos that Ferrarri used to operate in during those races and it is almost like their gene pool does not allow anything but chaos and nothing has changed over all those years.

Penske was about as complimentary as you are about Ferrari too!

[Casper]

Originally Posted by wnut

Penske was about as complimentary as you are about Ferrari too!

The bit about the Mexican Road Racing was in Smokey Yunick's book about his adventures and SY's descriptions most probably reflected what Penske thought of them as they raced through the same Era. Link to Penske's thoughts as I need a good laugh. I wish I could find the post I wrote back then but I can't be bothered searching due to illness.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by Casper

The bit about the Mexican Road Racing was in Smokey Yunick's book about his adventures and SY's descriptions most probably reflected what Penske thought of them as they raced through the same Era. Link to Penske's thoughts as I need a good laugh. I wish I could find the post I wrote back then but I can't be bothered searching due to illness.

'

It was in the Unfair Advantage by Mark Donahue and Paul van Valkenberg

It is not as forthright as Smokey's account; how surprising; but nevertheless Donahue and Penske were not impressed with Ferrari's service and "expertise".

They were pretty disappointed with Porsche too, but Porsche got Donahue across to Germany PDQ and used him to sort out their racing program.

Sorry to hear you're ill Casper, hope you are better soon!

[321Go]

Originally Posted by 321Go

BTW, Ferrari wind tunnel issues ring a bell? Aldo Costa suspected issues with the tunnel back in 2008, and wanted it looked at. Nope said the President. Then after Costa was sacked, the tunnel was shut down for a 'major upgrade'. But to this day, the Ferrari engineers are still finding correlation issues between the data coming from the tunnel and that gathered on the track. So what next then Luca says.. I know. Let's sack Domenicali and employ the best aerodynamicist. Maybe he can fix it. What's Adrian Newey doing next year?

The above was a small part of my post in this thread. A couple of days ago, Aldo Costa confirmed what I had posted above in an interview with top ranked Italian journalist Leo Turrini.

Aldo Costa: "Strategic mistakes were made – I’m talking here about errors of vision – very serious ones. And of course they haven’t always taken the best decisions regarding people.

"I’ll give you an example. In 2008 we in the racing department put in a request to construct a new wind tunnel. We considered it essential to remain competitive. We were told that this was not the case and that there was no need.

"In Ferrari all the decisions, on strategy and people, have always been taken by the president, Montezemolo."


The full interview with Aldo Costa can be read HERE on James Allen's blog.


So who's fault is it that Ferrari are in such a hole again?
Some have suggested it is Alonso's fault. Some morons even suggested Domenicali is to be blamed.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by 321Go

The above was a small part of my post in this thread. A couple of days ago, Aldo Costa confirmed what I had posted above in an interview with top ranked Italian journalist Leo Turrini.

Aldo Costa: "Strategic mistakes were made – I’m talking here about errors of vision – very serious ones. And of course they haven’t always taken the best decisions regarding people.

"I’ll give you an example. In 2008 we in the racing department put in a request to construct a new wind tunnel. We considered it essential to remain competitive. We were told that this was not the case and that there was no need.

"In Ferrari all the decisions, on strategy and people, have always been taken by the president, Montezemolo."


The full interview with Aldo Costa can be read HERE on James Allen's blog.


So who's fault is it that Ferrari are in such a hole again?
Some have suggested it is Alonso's fault. Some morons even suggested Domenicali is to be blamed.

I guess the moron that posted the above won't be able to reply.

[wnut]

Perhaps the FIAT board are getting to the nub of their problem after all!

Montezemolo plays down rumours:


http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns28860.html