Not Happy

[Crash Test]

I dunno, maybe it is the fact that Ford lost (again).
Maybe it is the fact that I'm very sour, bitter and twisted etc.
Maybe it is my cracker headache clouding my judgement and general thinking processes.

But Bathurst has changed....for the worse, and it will never be the same.

I spent the day with a group of state level racers and a former Bathurst racer, and I must say that none of our hearts were really with it.

In the olden days, Bathurst was an endurance race. It was a race of strategy, nursing a car, and keeping out of trouble. However in this modern age of the disposable society, it seems all patience, and respect for other racers has been replaced by biffing, barging and road rage.

As for the safety car...that's a joke. Why don't they take the cars down to the Bathurst showgrounds, have a demolition derby, then take the cars up the road for a 20 sprint? I know it's all in the name of safety, but if they didn't allow retrieved cars back in the race, perhaps the drivers wouldn't drive over the edge?

That's my rant for now....what did the rest of you think of the 'Great' race?

[Brock]

Have to agree with that. In years gone by i would sit there and watch the whole thing start to finish. Today i found my self going and having a sleep for a couple of hours then to watch the sprint race which is the last 30 laps or after the last stop the rest of the day is bloodt awful

[racer69]

I agree also, i was thinking exactly the same thing during the race. I'm not a fan of the safety car, but agree that it is used in the name of safety, but i felt it was over used yesterday. In the case of the Faulkner accident, it was fair enough, and i could just about accept it coming out when the rain started, but what about when Gardner went off at the cutting, or when Harris hit the wall, that was totally off the line, and reduced it to what might have been an ordinary sprint round.

When the safety car was introduced in 87, and the early years following, it wasn't used all that much and the race was still an enduro, while yesterday's was just drive around and wait for the yellow, pit when it came out, then wait for 20 laps to go and put the foot down, notice how Skaife and Jones left everyone behind in the last laps, they didn't show that superiority early on.

[RaceTime]

Totally agree on the safety car issue.

For info's sake, the race was broken into segments as follows (I have not included the gap between safety car periods 1 & 2 (21 lap only) and 4 and 5 (5 laps) or 6, 7 and 8 (6 and 3 laps resp)

Period 1 - 27 laps
2 - 22 laps
3 - 18 laps
4 - 28 laps (to the flag)

Actually, looking at it - between the start of safety period 4 and the end of period 8 - there were only 20 laps of racing over a total of 48 laps covered.

The current mentality and control has destroyed a once great endurance race.

[Champ69]

I have to disagree with you that Bathurst has lost some of its edge. Bathurst is absolutely magnificent.

The fact that Bathurst is no longer an endurance race but a long distance sprint race just shows how professional the teams have got, Lemans is now a sprint race as well.

HRT won the day as they played it very safe letting cars go by on a regular basis. While all the other main players failed to make a challenge as they got in some bingles or had mechanical failures.

But to make Bathurst a bit better here are my Ideas.
· A car that needs any outside assistance to get back on the track or back to the pits is out of the race.
· Get rid of the brake pad change.
· Get rid of the maximum & minimum driver time.
· Get rid of the double points, but keep it as a championship round.
· Let the privateers back in the race.

[racer69]

I agree with the brake pad change, one of the challenges of the race used to be being able to go the distance while still having enough brakes left at the end, remember Brock in '94, no pad change and it cost him as he crashed due to a brake problem.

[jetsetter]

Races like this weekend's is what makes it such a great event, you can't ask for much more than nine cars finishing on the same lap. I think it is a credit to the teams that it is now a sprint race.

[D.R.T.]

Whats the point of an endurance race if the Safety car makes it into a many sprint races. The blantant crashing into each other was terrible. Endurance races should be decided on team tactics , not who is crashed off the road by the Havoline Ford or the CAT Ford, those cars should't have been allowed in the race.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by jetsetter
Races like this weekend's is what makes it such a great event, you can't ask for much more than nine cars finishing on the same lap. I think it is a credit to the teams that it is now a sprint race.

Thats just the whole point though - it ISN'T the teams that turned it into a sprint race - it was Race Control with all the safety cars - the largest single run they got at racing was 28 laps immediately before the flag - that, another 27 lap a 22 lap and an 18 lap sprint were the ONLY four parts of a 161 lap race were they got to race for more than 15 laps at a time.

Now, sorry, but if you call that a great race, we obviously have differing ideas on what a great or an endurance race should be all about.

Why they just don't turn it into a normal sprint round now is beyond me - have 3 30 lap srpints instead of a single 161 lap race - although they would probably manage to run half those races under the safety car as well.

The stats for the season show that Bathurst accounts for over HALF the safety car periods for the season so far in time (57%) and 38% of all safety car laps run to date (52 of the 135 laps under safety) In terms of overall laps, 13% of all racing laps have been safety laps and have accounted for 24% - one QUARTER - of actual racing time.

Now - that is NOT good for the sport.

[hypo]

Bathurst is the longest race of the season ,so it stands to reason that its going to have the most SC periods.

I agree that they go overboard sometimes, but would you rather see drivers getting injured or a few more SC laps?

The Bathurst 1000 HAS changed for the worse and it will never be the same again but we still get to see Australias top teams and drivers battle it out on that fabulous track.I think we`re lucky.

[RaceTime]

Bathurst *is* the longest race of the season but that is no excuse for some of the safety car periods they are throwing. At least two of them could have been handled by local safety areas and that is something they need to look ta before they destroy any semblance of racing they have left.

Those that know me will tell you I could be termed fanatical over safety - but there are times when safety is used as an excuse for 'it felt like the right thing to do at the time' rather than what was actually needed.

[Crash Test]

It's kind of like the Olympic marathon starting out with a 100m dash though a booby trap filled paddock, then have the remaining competitors line up at the entrance to the stadium and have a run to the finish. It's survival of the fittest and the smartest, but it aint the same...

It could quite easily be brought back to the standard of race it was in the olden days, if the drivers used some brain. What is the point of punting someone off in the first 120 laps for the gain of one position?

I agree, the Doulman/Donaher shunt needed a safety car, no denying that...but the PHR car? Yes someone could crash into it...but it shouldn't be parked there in the first place!

So much for having 25% less cars on the track and having 25% less silly buggers....

[marcus]

its difficult isnt it ..the SC is needed at times but other times it isnt...I like the little sprints every now and then..they can get pretty crazy ...but the long drawn out thing is amazing to watch..i like the pad change ..it adds another element..but they are worried about marshalls on the track while cars are still racing..and i guess that is understandable.

i dont agree with if a car needs help then it should be out...i wouldnt want to spend all that money to have a driver spin into the gravel trap or get bogged or something like that on lap 1 and be told we are out..bugger that ..no way ..but local yellows could easilly fix that ..heck if the marshalls are to scared to go out and give a guy a push ..then give me a pair of overalls ..i will bloddy do it.

and let the privateers back in for gods sake..they make up an element that is tradition..i am sick to death of Seton whinging about the slow cars ..ok fine they maybe slow and i dont know what the problem there is ..surely it cant be hard to look in your mirrors and move out of the way.

its still is a great race but needs improvement thats for sure I was rivetted all day because the pace was amazing and there were many cars in with a shot at it ..that you must agree was exciting ..but SC all the time stuffs things up .

i dunno the answer but something needs changing

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Crash Test
So much for having 25% less cars on the track and having 25% less silly buggers....

brilliant

[Valve Bounce]

I agree with what everyone here is saying, and I'd like to add one little point: Skaife didn't race, and that's why he won.
Certainly the race has changed, because the cars have changed. It is much more professional nowadays, the cars are better prepared, and if I remember correctly, none of the top runners at any stage were affected by mechanical problems. And for a 1000 km enduro, this is unbelievable. All the problems were caused by guys wanting to be macho and racing against each other to prove some point or other. Even when Larry did something stupid to cost himself the race, he had just seconds earlier taken part in an argy bargy that nearly took him off the track - I thought he was going to prang into the other two cars. He lost concentration, and bigo "hello pit entry tyre wall". Just listen to the commentator in the last two laps - Skaife didn't race hell for leather these other drongoes, and that's why he won. He kept out of trouble.
What the heck is the use of running your car within inches of the car in front in a 1000 km enduro? Just shear stupidity.

[mac]

I'd love to see Bathurst in an Indy 500 type situation.

- keep it in the championship.
- get rid of double points.
- reduce it to 500 kilometres or 500 miles.
- make it a one driver race.
- anyone who just races at Bathurst and is not a series regular is not eligible to collect SCS points.

Just a thought.

[Crash Test]

Nah...messing with the distance and format is out of the question, but they will hopefully be doing something about the points situation when they announce the formats for next year at Sandown.

[elephino]

What I found interesting, and didn't help with length of safety car periods, was that they didn't leave dead cars around the track (behind the walls of course) but returned them to the bottom of the mountain. For instance the Larkham/Gardner car, which could have been removed qiute quickly by putting it at the inside of the cutting (there is a heap of space for it) but instead was taken 4km or so down to the pits.

[jetsetter]

The interesting thing to come out of this years race is in past years the top drivers always put the spate of accidents down to backmarkers or once a year drivers but this year there were only thirty nine cars and still a lot of incidents so who will they blame this year.

[racer69]

I agree about the cars being taken all the way round the track, like Gardner's and also radisich's car, could have been taken to the small gates, like where the Crichton and perkins cars were taken in 87, or the Seten car in 89 just up at Reid Park. Remember when Meidecke broke down on lap 1 in 89 and parked on the rise just at Reid Park, his car stayed there all day.

[groucho]

Have to disagree with most of you guys. I reckon the safety car periods keep the race interesting by keeping the cars bunched up rather than 1 car disappearing off into the distance and winning by a massive amount. A couple of changes i would like to see though would be not counting safety car laps as race laps ie make them race for the full 1000km rather than a couple hundred kms and then have a rest, also no pitstops during safety car periods, make them pit during race conditions.

[RaceTime]

Originally posted by groucho
A couple of changes i would like to see though would be not counting safety car laps as race laps ie make them race for the full 1000km rather than a couple hundred kms and then have a rest, also no pitstops during safety car periods, make them pit during race conditions.

This means the race would never reach 1000km now - 52 laps under safety cars this year (and 2 hours 50 mins; last year 45 laps and 2 hours 12 mins.

Or do you think it should be a night race as well?

[jetsetter]

Maybe they could turn it into a twelve hour race.

[elephino]

52 laps under safety cars this year (and 2 hours
50 mins; last year 45 laps and 2 hours 12 mins.

I thought it seemed as though the pace car was going rather slowly. only an extra 7 laps and an extra 38 minutes longer.

[Airhead]

I agree totally with Valve on this race.

The comentators themselves aren't sure what the real meaning of the race is. Is it to conserve and endure or to run with the pedal to the metal for 6 and a half hours? Both strategies were advanced as being the right approach.

These are my impressions from the sermon on the Mount:

1. Skaife won by concentrating on the championship not the race. Surely there is a lesson there.

2. Seton (and more to the point FTR) is/are incapable of learning the lessons of the past.

3. The $170 I would have won had Ambrose and WWakefield won the race was Monopoly money.

4. How come every second sheep has HRT clothing worth at least $250?

5. The car park. There was not a Monaro, Torana, GT Falcon or Charger to be seen. The 'sport' is aimed at the guys and there families who filled the car park with XR8's, XR6's, HSV Commodores (very common) and Holden Commodore SS's. Upper middle class demographic anyone?

6. The ****ed minority were overcome by the middle class demographic seen in the above.

7. I love the pit promo girls!

[Morris 1100]

Remember when Tony stole the race it was all about money,the drivers were not getting their fair share, not enough prize money, why should we pay entry fees and all that ****. Well here we are down the track and what have we got? No title sponsor, less cars, less racing, more rain (I blame Tony) Made up crowd figures. Where does the money come from? where does it go? Support races paying big dollars to get their class up there. Before Tony the entry fee for the HQ support races was $200 after Tony it was $500 but the big boys didn't pay anything. But now its whichever class pays the most is the support. And whats with the crowd figures why do they have to tell us all time how big the crowd is, when they just make up the figures anyway. Tony is in big trouble in Canberra about how come the income doesn't match the crowd numbers. When will it end ?