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9 Jun 2008, 10:56 (Ref:2223558) | #1 | ||
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Bemani Toyota Supra
a couple of years ago i corresponded with a UK owner of a (reputedly) bermani Supra , supposedly a factory car raced 1989-93. I would like to track him down as his email has "died"
does anyone know of this car or any other GpA period Supras still exist??. I was talking with John Smith in Sydney today about his GpA Supra which he still takes out occassionally. Luckily i had a spare magnesium bellhousing for him after his clutch let go at the last historic meeting. |
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9 Jun 2008, 12:07 (Ref:2223621) | #2 | |
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There was a mention in a Group A Toyota thread a while back of one of the Bemani cars being raced in the Swiss touring car series in 1993/4, fitted with a 2-litre engine. A guy named Rudiger Naf also apparently ran one in the Divinol Tourenwagen Cup in Germany around 1999- those details posted in the thread are about the limit of my knowledge...
A red Supra, almost certainly one of the ex-MIL cars, ran in Thundersaloon races in the early 90s in the UK. I don't remember who ran it, but vaguely recall it was re-engined with an RS500 unit. I know I've got pics somewhere of the car at Brands, probably taken around 1992/3-ish, as I saw them recently while looking for something else. I'll dig them out, scan one and see it it sparks any memories... |
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9 Jun 2008, 12:26 (Ref:2223647) | #3 | |||
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TRD
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The good old days sure seem like a long time ago!! |
9 Jun 2008, 13:12 (Ref:2223701) | #4 | ||
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I was racing against a very nice white one at Mallory the other week in the Pre-93 Touring Cars, dunno if it has any history but it looked a pucker job. He is out again with me at Oulton on the 21st June I will see if I can find out anything.
I also remember racing against both a white and a red one back in the 90's the white one may be the car I mentioned earlier in Modified Production Saloons as I am sure I asked the owner this before and one if not both were definitely ex-works cars. I think it may have been entered by Scot ex-BTCC privateer Hamish Irvine but I may have my lines crossed as it was some time ago. I will ask the current owner of the white car and post back or get him to. |
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13 Jun 2008, 08:13 (Ref:2227545) | #5 | ||
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thanks folks, any leads greatly appreciated. I have a stash of real GpA race spares , so want to find out if any remain, apart for the one car still running here.
I speak with Bates motorsport occassionally as we both look after a lot of Toyota race cars. They dont seem to have any interest in history, totally preoccuopied with current rally issues. I've also contacted TRD and TOMS without any luck--same story really |
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13 Jun 2008, 10:49 (Ref:2227688) | #6 | ||
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I will sound out the owner of the one I am racing against next Saturday 21st June at the meeting and see if he has any info as he seems knowledgable when I last spoke with him, lovely car incidently probably my favourite car on the grid and a lot bigger in real life than it looks in pictures I will also grab some pickies and post them.
Last edited by Al Weyman; 13 Jun 2008 at 10:52. |
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14 Jun 2008, 09:21 (Ref:2228288) | #7 | ||
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thanks for that. I have done a Google search on the driver/series names and got nowhere. there are lots of references to Divinol cup, but seems to be much later. what historical info I did find, has nothing relating to Supras in early 90's.
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17 Jun 2008, 11:28 (Ref:2230730) | #8 | ||
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supra drivers
I have coresponded with Hugh Marshall who drove one of the Thundersaloon Supras. he says both of them were built by Specfab, so neither may be ex works cars. The other (Cosworth powered) car was driven by Chris Hodgetts. The shell of one of them may survive.
anyone else have any more info yet?? |
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17 Jun 2008, 12:05 (Ref:2230750) | #9 | |
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That suggests they were definitely the ex-MIL/Toyota GB Supras, as Specfab were involved with these- they apparently did quite a few BTCC projects, including the CHMS Corollas
http://www.specfab.co.uk/history.htm |
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18 Jun 2008, 09:42 (Ref:2231712) | #10 | ||
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Specfab have confirmed they built 2 cars and 1 survives. it does not look like we are any closer to the bermani ex works cars.
who/what was M.I.L.???? |
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28 Jun 2008, 15:15 (Ref:2239292) | #11 | ||
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Quote:
It's not a very good pic, but this is presumably one of the ex-MIL/Toyota GB Supras, racing in Thundersaloons at Brands in the early 90's- I don't seem to have the programme for this meeting, so can't confirm the date, which car or who's driving... ...and just for good measure, one of the Bemani cars at the 1988 TT |
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5 Nov 2009, 12:17 (Ref:2576317) | #12 | ||
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Quote:
http://www.simonlewis.com/images/ph-...a-BH120493.JPG http://www.simonlewis.com/images/ph-...l-BH120493.JPG |
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20 Jun 2008, 08:31 (Ref:2233210) | #13 | ||
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OK,,, thanks. thats a bit clearer, but still no closer to finding the works cars. I have reason to beleive 7 were built. I have the remnants of 1 that was crushed here to avoid duties. it was the ex Spa 1988 car and was in very poor condition.
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23 Jun 2008, 23:34 (Ref:2236216) | #14 | ||
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By works cars, presumably we're talking about cars built by TOM'S in Japan, rather than cars built outside Japan- Did any of the European cars (think there were something like 6 active in Europe during 1988, 2 from each of MIL in the BTCC, Bemani in the DTM and ETCC and RAS Sport at Spa) come from TOM'S? I dont think we saw a TOM'S entered works Supra until Spa 1989 http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-23-036.jpg http://www.racingsportscars.com/etcc...-07-23-037.jpg Nice collection of Supra pics, including TOM'S, SARD, RAS Sport, Bemani and Australian cars: http://www.supra-garage.de/rennsport.htm |
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24 Jun 2008, 20:49 (Ref:2236816) | #15 | ||
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Hewland told me they made 9 special gearboxes to order from Toyota. 7 for cars being built plus 2 complete for spares. These are a magnesium cased, close ratio dog box. I have one of these. When I was speaking with John Smith at some stage, he mentioned 7 cars in total.
I beleive all the works cars were made in japan. I dont have confirmation if it was TOMS or TRD, but I suspect TOMS. I've written to Bemani & TOMS, so I guess, I'll keep hunting |
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28 Jun 2008, 15:41 (Ref:2239299) | #16 | ||
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I'm assuming from what you've posted that the John Smith car in Australia came from Japan. Was this a Team Toyota Australia effort? It would be useful to know some history, as my knowledge of the Aussie Group A scene is very patchy, particularly for the later years. Didn't Garry Willmington have a Supra as well- was this an independent self-built job like his XJS, or an ex-Japan car? I don't know much about the spec of any of the European cars, but can't help suspecting that TRD and TOM'S may not have had much- if any- input on these- Certainly, none of them were ever very successful, the RAS and MIL cars were both off-the-pace and unreliable, while Bemani went the uncompetitive but more reliable non-turbo route and ran in midfield |
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29 Jun 2008, 10:07 (Ref:2239597) | #17 | ||
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Yes, the John Smith car was built by TOMS Japan . I believe the Minolta/Fuxitsu sponsored cars were part of the same "family" of 7 cars, 1 of which was crushed here to avoid duties.
I understood from my brief correspondence with hewland, that the special gearboxes were built for Toyota Japan and their GpA racers , so I assume these are the cars built by TOMS. The 2 TOMS cars here, had these special boxes. As far as I know, at that time, TOMS GB was concentrating on Formula cars and the BTCC front drive corolla (which I own), and they dont seem to have had much, if any, role in the Supras. Whilst TOMS GB may have been a bit of staging post for other european events, from what little I know, it never got anywhere near the depth of TOMS Japan. I dont have any definite proof yet, but I'm sure the Bemani cars were ex TOMS. I have not yet had a reply from bermani. I have some contacts in Germany chasing leads at that end, so maybe something will eventually surface. Toyota team Australia was disbanded when GpA finished in 1993 and the parts/cars scattered. John Smith, their lead driver, managed to hang onto the Supra and a pile of parts for this and his AE92 corolla. His AE92 corolla was sold many years ago and still competes in historic events. The Gary Wilmington Supra that raced here was definitely not an ex-TOMS car. I have tried to trace the car , but the leads have gone cold. Whislt there is some anecdotal evidence it got converted back to a road car, it more likely was exported around 1999 when it appears it's then owner "did a runner" from creditors. These were all expensively and professionally built cars, and given there was no new model to transfer parts to, I'll be surprised if they were all scrapped. The search continues!! |
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22 Jun 2008, 06:57 (Ref:2234475) | #18 | ||
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The Toyota at Oulton I raced against yesterday (we had a great battle by the way but he pipped me in the end when I made a couple of errors) was not one of the works cars but a modified ex road car LHD imported from the US, went well though!
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3 Jul 2008, 17:25 (Ref:2243213) | #19 | ||
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Found these pics of historic event at Oran Park there is a Toyota in pic #4 behind green Skyline, not sure if its genuine or a replica but thought id post anyway.
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=530176 |
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3 Jul 2008, 19:38 (Ref:2243299) | #20 | ||
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Quote:
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4 Jul 2008, 03:26 (Ref:2243538) | #21 | |||
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3 Jul 2008, 19:57 (Ref:2243309) | #22 | ||
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And heres a better pic.
http://richardtaylor.zenfolio.com/p4...2E72#741355122 |
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4 Jul 2008, 12:06 (Ref:2243805) | #23 | ||
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I took these photos of John’s GPA Supra and have them hosted on my website.
http://www.turbosupras.com/pages/en/...0GA/ma70ga.htm I bought a lot of stuff from John years ago and still talk to him. John is getting into the historic meets now and the Supra will shine. |
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6 Jul 2008, 04:46 (Ref:2244916) | #24 | ||
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NIcholas, a few comments from looking over your web-page
the gearbox is an english hewland, not Holinger, and its used in a magnesium housing. 100lb valve springs is not really a useful statement. You might have meat to say 100lb seat pressure??. if I remember correctly, all the GpA supras had 65mm throttle body and there was nothing special about it, just the homologated part The crank mods in that period were typically limited to getting the weight right. in some cases heavier turbo cranks were selectively machined down to the weight of the non-turbo crank, which was often the homologated one. thay way, the machining could be selective and have some other benefits. I've sent you a PM about parts. cheers |
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6 Jul 2008, 09:08 (Ref:2245016) | #25 | ||
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Hi Terrryobeirn
Thanks for that; I will update the gearbox info. I didn’t get John Smith to proof read the article before it went up. It’s great to find someone that knows about the cars. The GPA throttle body I got from John had a hole drilled in the flap; don’t know if this was a poor form of idle control? Apart from that, yes is was the same casting as the turbo A road car. How do you know so much about the GPA Supra, did you have involvement with the race team back then? Regards Nicholas |
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