[FIA GT] GT1 World Championship 2011

[Birddog07]

Maybe a GT300 car, but the GT500's are on par with LMP2 cars I'd say. Actually, I wish LMP would take direction from Super GT and race production based prototypes, so sexy.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Maybe a GT300 car, but the GT500's are on par with LMP2 cars I'd say. Actually, I wish LMP would take direction from Super GT and race production based prototypes, so sexy.

I didn't make it up though, I took it off of speedhunters.com and a couple of other sites that asked the same question. The drivers seemed to agree that the LFA in cornering terms was at least on par with GT500 machines. I donno what truth there is to it, but it could be!

[Birddog07]

Maybe, but it is hard to believe that a GT3 car corners significantly faster than a GT2 car with alittle aero (like some of the GT300 cars are, mainly the GT3 RSR's)

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Birddog07

Maybe, but it is hard to believe that a GT3 car corners significantly faster than a GT2 car with alittle aero (like some of the GT300 cars are, mainly the GT3 RSR's)

Are you saying that the Porsche's in SuperGT's GT300 class are faster around turns than their GT2 class counterparts?

I remember watching this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaowvWwD-Rs and hearing that without restrictors the GT500 cars would produced over 700-800HP, that's just crazy. Here's some lap times of GT1 compared to Super GT, only track I could find was Okayama in 2009, Asian LeMans Series ran there as well as Super GT.

SGT qualifying time - 1:24.069 Lexus SC430
GT1 (jap lemans) qualifying time - 1:29.827 Saleen S7R (1:27.515 DBR9, ruled illegal due to rear wing)

3.44/5.75 seconds difference in favor of SuperGT500 class.

Now lets look at GT300 times vs. GT2 times.

SGT qualifying time - 1:31.860 Ferrari F430
GT2 qualifying time - 1:30.847 Porsche 997 (1:30.721 Aston Martin Vantage, ruled illegal due to rear wing)

1.01/1.14 second difference in favor of GT2 class. But in reality the SuperGT300 cars being limited to 300HP, they must be making the time up in the turns to only be a second or two off the pace of the GT cars.

[The IC]

no, i think Birddog07 is asking how could the N24 LF-A have handling performance anywhere near a GT500/LMP2 car, when its laptimes at the N24 race would only put it roughly on par with an FIA GT3 spec car...it should have annihilated them if it was true

im not sure how thats relevant anyway, if they build an LF-A to GT1 spec, then its performance specs are obviously going to be similar to the other GT1 cars...

[TF110]

Originally Posted by The IC

no, i think Birddog07 is asking how could the N24 LF-A have handling performance anywhere near a GT500/LMP2 car, when its laptimes at the N24 race would only put it roughly on par with an FIA GT3 spec car...it should have annihilated them if it was true

im not sure how thats relevant anyway, if they build an LF-A to GT1 spec, then its performance specs are obviously going to be similar to the other GT1 cars...

Well it is a wonder how the production car in demo model trim can take turns better (or at more speed) than a new Ferrari 458. According to a few tests done at the Nurburgring with the LFA, like AutoZeitung, the cornering in the LFA is fantastic. Taking some corners at 1.5G's while the next best Ferrari 458 is at 1.3G's. So take of that what you will, I think the LFA was built in such a way that it produces a good amount of downforce on it's own, let alone a big rear wing and wider profile/slick tires on the race car.

[The IC]

the N24 LF-As only qualified mid-field of the GT3 spec cars...if the LF-As actual recorded lap times in racing conditions show its only as fast as a GT3 car (and if you watch it in videos, it behaves the same as all the other GT3 cars), an unverified claim from someone at a demonstration run that it performs like a GT500 or LMP2 car doesnt really have much to stand on, does it

[TF110]

Originally Posted by The IC

the N24 LF-As only qualified mid-field of the GT3 spec cars...if the LF-As actual recorded lap times in racing conditions show its only as fast as a GT3 car (and if you watch it in videos, it behaves the same as all the other GT3 cars), an unverified claim from someone at a demonstration run that it performs like a GT500 or LMP2 car doesnt really have much to stand on, does it

You must realize that you're comparing a production ready car to race cars. The VLN race and N24 races the LFA entered in SP8 class which is close to production. The LFA weighed 3200lbs. and was restricted to under 500HP. The GT3 cars you speak of are race cars that are 2700lbs and are not in the same class but in SP9 which is the FASTEST class and is equal to FIAGT3 cars. Just like the new SLS which ran in the latest VLN race. So you do the math. The LFA was about 20-30 seconds off the pace of the SP9 cars. Pretty good for a car that's close to production.

[Dead-Eye]

SP8 (or 7) isn't a close-to-production class. It's where GT3 cars went before they made a special class for them, and it's still the class you go in if you show up with a GT2 car.

[Nick6]

Don't know if they still do but the Sp classes use to allow motor swaps and tube frame chassis!

[Purist]

The trouble with getting good GT1 lap times on the Japanese tracks, to get a comparison, is that there wasn't the caliber in that class to get those good numbers. Now, I could give you analysis based on performance at other tracks to give some type of approximation of old and new spec GT1s could be expected to do at the various Japanese tracks to give some comparison with SuperGT.

As it stands, the GT1 lap records at Japanese circuits stand thus:
Sugo- 1:20.452, 103.008mph (2007)
Fuji- 1:38.919, 103.175mph (2007)
Motegi- 1:52.622, 95.257mph (2006)
Aida (Okayama)- 1:29.493, 92.561 (2006)

A key point in comparing these GT classes is that GT1s will be significantly closer in pace to GT500s on high-speed circuits as compared to slower, more technical tracks.

Based on fast lap times from other road courses, particularly those in North America, these are my rough, pole lap times for the major Japanese circuits with top GT1 cars in 1999-2009 spec, driven on the limit:
Aida (Okayama)- 1:24.000, 98.614mph
Autopolis- 1:32.250, 113.327mph
Fuji- 1:34.500, 108.000mph
Motegi- 1:48.000, 99.333mph
Sugo- 1:15.000, 110.496mph
Suzuka- 1:51.000, 116.886mph

Also, remember that we never saw what the GT1s could really do at Le Mans, because they held back in light of that 3:50 "limit", but I wouldn't bet against the potential of those cars being able to dip into or below 3:45s, or even slightly better than that. Given the importance of the straights at Le Mans, and the fact that LMP2s were lapping below 3:35 with significantly less horsepower than the pre-2010 GT1s, I wonder how close to a 3:40 those GT1s could have, theoretically, gotten.

[Speed-King]

I am pretty sure SP never allowed tubeframes, or at least not for a very long time. That's why the DTM-cars had to run in the freestyle class E1XP in 2003 and 04. Engine swaps should still be possible, though, as long as the brand of the engine remains the same.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

SP8 (or 7) isn't a close-to-production class. It's where GT3 cars went before they made a special class for them, and it's still the class you go in if you show up with a GT2 car.

That's wrong. SP9 is the class for GT3 cars and special EX classes are cars like GT3-GT2 class cars. Example- BMW M3 GT2, Mercedes Benz SLS GT3. SP8 class is 'close to production' where the LFA ran along with the Aston Martin Rapide, the Vantage N24, the Lexus IS-F as well. SP8 is engine size code for 6250cc and under to 4000cc. In the regulations their weights are minimum of 1500kg. Check vln.de and you can see the regs for yourself.

It would seem that in Fast tracks that GT1 could potentially compete with SuperGT, but on tracks like Suzuka, they'd be left at least 3-4 seconds adrift. The GT1 class at Okayama in last year's Asian LeMans series featured a Saleen S7 and an Aston DBR9, the DBR9 ran by a Japanese team who had ran in SuperGT, also with GT2 the Vantage by Aston won pole, but they were deemed illegal because of a rear wing violation. I doub't that accounted for the 2 second advantage over the Saleen for the DBR9 though. As in the race they were faster and had the chance for a win.

[Speed-King]

Believe me, I've studied those regs...

SP7/8 is not for close to production cars.

Generally the "V"-classes are the ones in VLN for production cars, but they only exist up to 3.6 (or so) litres.

If you have a close to production car with a bigger displacement, you either have to get a GT4 homologation and run in SP10 or get into SP6/7/8 and fight highly modified cars.
Farnbachers GT2 Ferrari ran in SP7 this year, as did Mantheys RSR last year.
The official reason the BMW was in E1XP was that it has a trans-axle when the road version hasn't. That kind of swap isn't allowed under the SP-rules... The unofficial reason is that SP7/8 are crippled by the rules to make sure that the GT3s win all the time and BMW didn't want to race in that class...

[TF110]

SP8 was slowed down in order for SP9 or GT3 cars to win. And because of the size of the engine. They are also given weight penalties which makes the LFA racing at it's production car weight. The same can be said with the Aston Martins. This is what I'm saying. The LFA didn't race at the weight of the SP9 GT3 cars. It raced around 3200-3300lbs. and with engine restrictions. You can go to gazooracing.com and have a look.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by TF110

That's wrong. SP9 is the class for GT3 cars and special EX classes are cars like GT3-GT2 class cars. Example- BMW M3 GT2, Mercedes Benz SLS GT3. SP8 class is 'close to production' where the LFA ran along with the Aston Martin Rapide, the Vantage N24, the Lexus IS-F as well. SP8 is engine size code for 6250cc and under to 4000cc. In the regulations their weights are minimum of 1500kg. Check vln.de and you can see the regs for yourself.

I know the regs, better than you obviously. The M3 went into E1-XP because of the homologation issues with the ALMS version of the car (and what Speed-King said ). The SLS isn't homologated yet, so it ran in the invitational E1-XP class as well.

Of course SP9 is for GT3 cars. Now. Two or three years ago a GT3 went into SP8 or 7 (depending on engine size), because there was no SP9. And since there isn't a class for GT2 cars they go into whatever SP class they fit in engine-wise if they meet SP regulations, which at least the RSR and the 430 do.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

I know the regs, better than you obviously. The M3 went into E1-XP because of the homologation issues with the ALMS version of the car (and what Speed-King said ). The SLS isn't homologated yet, so it ran in the invitational E1-XP class as well.

Of course SP9 is for GT3 cars. Now. Two or three years ago a GT3 went into SP8 or 7 (depending on engine size), because there was no SP9. And since there isn't a class for GT2 cars they go into whatever SP class they fit in engine-wise if they meet SP regulations, which at least the RSR and the 430 do.

How do you get off saying you know the regs better than me because you know why BMW was in the E1-XP class? So what? I'm not a BMW fan so I could care less why they were there. I just know the LFA racing at the VLN races and the N24 is NOT equivalent to GT3. I'm not trying to get into a fight or a words match with anyone, but the LFA is probably my favorite car. And I've been following it for quite a while now. SP8 class cars like the LFA are far from the SP9 GT3 cars. That's all I'm saying. The LFA ran 'close to production'.

[HORNDAWG]

Proof seems to be in the puddin'.



L.P.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Proof seems to be in the puddin'.



L.P.

Like I said before, there's no reason for me to study the rule book. I have better things to concern myself with than why BMW had to run in a certain class. If you want facts you can head over to VLN's website and read their rule book. I know for a fact that the LFA wasn't run in configurations comparable to GT3 cars, at least in terms of weight.

[Dead-Eye]

Originally Posted by TF110

Like I said before, there's no reason for me to study the rule book.

Fair enough. But then don't tell people who might have been following VLN and the N24 for years to read it without checking your facts.

[tux]

If the series is going to America next year which track do you think they will use? Id love to see Road Atlanta, Sebring or Road America used.

[I Rosputnik]

The representive from the GT1 facebook page has hinted it will be Laguna Seca, but if will be, I don't know.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by Dead-Eye

Fair enough. But then don't tell people who might have been following VLN and the N24 for years to read it without checking your facts.

You still don't get what I mean. Yes, the regulations are plain as day if you read them. I don't follow the BMW though, I follow the LFA. The LFA ran at a production car weight. Not GT3 cars weight. That was the main reason this whole thing about the regulations came up. I'm not disputing anyone's claim that they know more about the regs than I do. I don't concern myself with every class of car. I just know that the LFA ran at or around 3200-3300lbs. Far from what the SP9 cars which are GT3 class did in terms of weight.

All that said I hope to see the LFA in GT1 next year, as well as the Alpina BMW. Laguna Seca is a good track, but I think they should use a bigger track. Road America would be nice, good long straights and pretty good combination of turns.

[I Rosputnik]

I think we could see United in a few years time in GT1...

And then of course there is the business arrangement between your company JMI and the FIA GT1 World Championship. Your aim was to find a title sponsor for the FIA GT1 World Championship and increase promotion of the series. You were working hard on that – and still are – can you give us an update on the status of this project?

“It is going well. I think we’re close and I would be disappointed if we won’t have something for 2011. I knew we wouldn’t have something for 2010 because you’ve got to show it to everyone and by the time we were hired we were already out of the budget cycle. A lot of people have shown a lot of interest, I think the championship has lived up to the expectations, it has got full grids and all the things that when you have a new championship people want to wait and see. I am pretty confident that a big sponsor can be announced before the start of the new season.” [From planetlemans.com]

In a converted R8 GT3 maybe?

[Aysedasi]

The next person who mentions again the rule book and the fact that someone should be reading it gets a warn - I don't care who it is - understood?