[BTCC] BTCC 2017 - Rounds 13, 14, 15 - Croft

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

Don't see why he won't be back for the next meeting. It is 6 weeks away after all. Building another car might be more of an issue than his leg healing in time.

Paul Trafford (TOCA doctor) was interviewed on the ITV coverage. He said that baring any complications, Taylor Smith should be ok to come back at Snetterton. ATS himself was also interviewed and said he had been told 5-6 weeks recovery, which fitted in nicely with the summer break before Snetterton.

Trafford also said that he thought Davenport and Smith would be able to return before the end of the year.

[porsche962fan]

Nobody mention Rob Austin's dig at TOCA in race 3 interview where he said that he couldn't compete with the Ford and Subaru BOOST

[psq43]

Nobody mentioned his pre race toilet skippage either.

Funniest thing I've seen on telly since Father Ted

[850Estate]

Originally Posted by Matt

Most of the tracks the series visit look the same from a surroundings perspective, and really aren't all that "inspiring" to look at, imo. I understand they're all in the English countryside, so it's a whole mess of fields, but yeah.

Re: side impact protection. What do these cars run for door bars? If it's the typical touring/rally car "x" bar, maybe they should think about putting in NASCAR style door bars on the drivers side.

*Cough* Not all of them are in England *Cough*

I think we have some pretty lovely tracks. Croft isn't stunning, but that's mainly because it is an airstrip in a field. Oulton Park, Knockhill and Donington (now they've tidied it up a bit) are all pretty unique and quite interesting. Same with the GP loop at Brands.

[VIVA GT]

I think for me the problem is that although I'm very familiar with the other circuits used for the BTCC but have only ever visited Croft twice. Once with a mate who raced his motorbike there over 40 years ago, and the second time was for a servicing halt on the RAC Rally 30 odd years ago. But I don't think the TV coverage did anything to enhance the view, the track did appear pretty featureless so unfortunately I'm not feeling enticed to go back there for another look myself!

[Akrapovic]

Croft has never had the best camera views. The cameras are too low and at odd angles. There's several corners (sunny being the worst) when it's hard to see if cars are even alongside. It's had this problem for decades as well, so it isn't a recent thing.

I understand they don't want to raise the cameras because it kills the sense of speed, but I do think Crofts the weakest on the calendar in terms of camera placement. It's not really a BTCC fault that one, but it'd be nice if they redid the camera positions.

[850Estate]

Strong stuff from Collard in relation to the number of black and orange marks he has on the back of his car.

https://www.touringcartimes.com/2017...three-tactics/

[Pringles]

Anyone know what Josh Cook's stop-go penalty was for?

Commentators said a grid infringement but nothing more was said about it.

[mark_l]

Originally Posted by Pringles

Anyone know what Josh Cook's stop-go penalty was for?

Commentators said a grid infringement but nothing more was said about it.

Apparently it was for working on the grid at the 2 minute board, it could of been as simple as mechanic checking the torque on a wheel nut.

[Akrapovic]

Did Collard not run into one of the Subarus? It looked a bit suspicious that it was Subaru-BMW-Subaru, and then suddenly the lead Subaru is spinning round with a BMW on its bumper.

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by mark_l

Apparently it was for working on the grid at the 2 minute board, it could of been as simple as mechanic checking the torque on a wheel nut.

Correct - they were working on the car beyond the allotted time

[CaptRustyNail]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Interesting take on it - I watched race 1 last night and I thought Austins driving stood out as unusually bad. There were several rear facing 'bumper cam' shots that had very close up views of Austins car as he bashed into the car ahead.

Couple of them were b'cos Ollie Jackson was shoved him up the rear. As he did several times to people.

I agree with some of the comments about the TV direction.. The Comms boys were commentating on some action in the 10-11-12 positions and there was an overtake about to happen and the director cut to the lead where nothing exciting was happening.. I felt a brief pause from Harvey and sensed he was annoyed.

Cook is a funny one. He is a lovely person and great talent but on the track he bumps people out of the way but doesn't like it happening to him. A few times its happened this season and last season. But then again all drivers are probably like that.

Thoughts with all those involved in Saturdays incident.

[S griffin]

Sometimes the concertina effect means when things are close you get a bit of bumping, but it's not good when you use it to just pass the car in front. It's not all bad, but let's hope it's acted on more

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

Am I the only one that finds this amusing? Complaining about drivers shoving people off then saying how nice it was to see "Mr Punt" back at the sharp end?

You know, I never even considered it! Oh dear...

...as for the move on Sutton, a little more room would've been nice - he didn't have to force him fully off of the circuit, just a squeeze would've been enough.

[Tal Aras]

Originally Posted by BLiTZ

. Seemed like people were still carrying a lot of speed, I dunno in situations like this whether the marshalls have the ability to make the call and wave reds (facing the heat later if they judge it wrong, I guess) or if they have to wait for race control by which time it's too late?

Simple answer is no. Only Race Control can order a Red Flag, as that affects the whole circuit (same for Safety Car, Code 60 and green flags after those).

A double waved yellow means "Great danger. Slow down considerably. Be prepared to suddenly change from the projected racing line, or take other evasive action including stopping if necessary." which covers the situation within a specific section of the circuit.

[porsche962fan]

looking at the standings Shedden followed by 3 RWD drivers ...


Neal 33 points behind him , guess he will have to pledge allegiance rather soon , Tingram bid falling apart unfortunately


but in the Indy standings Rob Austin just 3 points behind Tingram , might fancy him getting that title


does anyone know if Jordan scores for WSR in the constructors standings ?

[Mike Harte]

Originally Posted by BLiTZ

Wow, just watched the clip on YouTube, very reminiscent of the Oulton Park British GT crash in 2002. Lots of work for the teams and and a long summer break of recovery for all involved. Seemed like people were still carrying a lot of speed, I dunno in situations like this whether the marshalls have the ability to make the call and wave reds (facing the heat later if they judge it wrong, I guess) or if they have to wait for race control by which time it's too late?

My personal feeling about the incidents is that some of the drivers appeared to slow down insufficiently in view of all the flags waving and the track conditions.

It was patently obvious that some other drivers took due notice of the flags and the conditions, and had sufficiently retarded their cars meaning that they were able to negotiate the area without losing control.

IMHO the resultant carnage was reminiscent of the Bianchi incident.

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Mike Harte

My personal feeling about the incidents is that some of the drivers appeared to slow down insufficiently in view of all the flags waving and the track conditions.

Seemed multi-stage to me. The first group went off big time. The 2nd group were all over the place but some saved it and after that they all got around with a bit of sliding.

I expect it started with a yellow, then a doubled waved yellow and then the slippery surface flag was added. The marshalls wouldn't have realised immediately that oil was down. It's always a tricky call, as Chilton said, he almost caused another accident by backing off quickly.

That amount of oil on a wet track really is undriveable at pretty much any speed. I've hit it like that at racing speed and almost thrown up from the number of pirouettes I did and the next lap at 20mph behind the SC people were still going off.

[S griffin]

Originally Posted by AdrianM

Seemed multi-stage to me. The first group went off big time. The 2nd group were all over the place but some saved it and after that they all got around with a bit of sliding.

I expect it started with a yellow, then a doubled waved yellow and then the slippery surface flag was added. The marshalls wouldn't have realised immediately that oil was down. It's always a tricky call, as Chilton said, he almost caused another accident by backing off quickly.

That amount of oil on a wet track really is undriveable at pretty much any speed. I've hit it like that at racing speed and almost thrown up from the number of pirouettes I did and the next lap at 20mph behind the SC people were still going off.

And I'm guessing you can't see oil when the track is that wet

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by S griffin

And I'm guessing you can't see oil when the track is that wet

Definitely couldn't see it. They did a great onboard with Goff, with Harvey commentating. You could barely see it when you were looking specifically for it. It wasn't as obvious as a diesel spill on the road.

It was said that some drivers were down to 50mph and still went off. In this case I'm saying there was a lot of bad luck involved. Also, the marshal points don't see great at Croft. Theres a few times when the yellows were barely visible.

[Woolley]

Originally Posted by Tal Aras

Simple answer is no. Only Race Control can order a Red Flag, as that affects the whole circuit (same for Safety Car, Code 60 and green flags after those).

A double waved yellow means "Great danger. Slow down considerably. Be prepared to suddenly change from the projected racing line, or take other evasive action including stopping if necessary." which covers the situation within a specific section of the circuit.

All correct. On the YouTube video it's clear that at least a dozen cars negotiate the area perfectly safely, which suggests the reason others didn't is not due to track conditions or display of flags.

Thank goodness no marshals were over the barrier dealing with drivers who were obviously in some distress.

[crmalcolm]

Originally Posted by porsche962fan

does anyone know if Jordan scores for WSR in the constructors standings ?

If they nominate his car as one of their two constructor entries for that meeting.
Nominations are made ahead of qualifying.
'The Manufacturers/Constructors Championship: Points will be awarded to a maximum of two nominated cars (see CR 5.1) of the same make provided they are listed as a classified finisher in the Final Results. A Manufacturer/constructor must nominate a maximum of two cars in writing no less than 30 minutes before the nominated start-time of the Official Qualifying Session at each Championship Meeting.'

[AdrianM]

Originally Posted by Woolley

All correct. On the YouTube video it's clear that at least a dozen cars negotiate the area perfectly safely, which suggests the reason others didn't is not due to track conditions or display of flags.

Some of those cars that we see going through the corner actually had damage on them so they've got going again and we didn't see them going off.

I've no doubt that some probably did go off by not slowing down enough but I think it's a massive assumption to say that all of them did and those who got around didn't have a large element of luck involved.

[coppice]

As a regular at Croft some of the above comments are interesting ; as a circuit it's a far better viewing proposition than , say , Silverstone or Rockingham and even , in its current form at least , Donington , where the track is miles further away from spectators than it used to be in its first decade or two .It's not in the same league as Brands, Mallory or Goodwood , ;let alone Cadwell

. Croft has three prime overtaking areas - Sunny - visible from a distance only, the Hairpin and Tower . When the circuit was redesigned in 96 a major trick was missed by not having a proper spectating area around the hairpin ; speeds are obviously very low and a lot of action takes place there. But you can't see it properly - from Complex 2 you can see the beginning but not the end and teh infield viewing area is even worse .

For some years you could watch from the infield at Tower and it was bloody sensational . Sadly the RACSMA closed it down (despite my pleas not to! ) and it was deemed unsafe . And they weren't wrong - but watching a field of BTCC/Tuscans/F3 /GTs there was mesmerising .

I watch qualifying from Clervaux entry and Hawthorn -and 100m after the chicane when wet (brilliant there on Sat) . Racing - the best place by far is above the apex to Complex 1 where you can see moves in Jim Clark Esses, Barcroft and Sunny as well as Complex 1 and 2 .

I will be taking a Stanley knife to BTCC Croft next year to remove those f***ing gazeboes etc. If wet , OK use a brolly, but these bloody marquees are appalling and selfishly obstruct the view a good ten metres either side .

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by coppice

I will be taking a Stanley knife to BTCC Croft next year to remove those f***ing gazeboes etc. If wet , OK use a brolly, but these bloody marquees are appalling and selfishly obstruct the view a good ten metres either side .

That annoys me too - there was one at Brands set up at Paddock - so nicely obstructing views at one of the best spots to watch from. Some people set them up away from the fencing (so people can still get in front of them to watch) - that's not so bad. Lydden had the best approach here - they banned them.