"ALL American cars are RUBBISH."

[Lee Janotta]

My point exactly, bottle.

I mean, this is a kit car!



This is... A Fiero with a fake Diablo body bolted over the original frame and gutless V6.



And this is... An abomination.

[Bluebottle]

Without wishing to go off-topic much further, one of the worst abominations came from the UK, Wigan in fact. The Kingfisher Countess was an attempt at a Countach copy, built on a Beetle floorpan!

[garcon]

The Kingfisher Countess ...

Sounds like it should be moored on the Norfolk Broads somewhere.

I seem to remember seeing one of those Countach replicas though. Deeply horrifying.

Continuing to go off topic (you started it) a friend has always been mad keen on kitcars. His first full build was a Robin Hood on Sierra 2.0L underpinnings. That was quite hairy. In most senses of the word. Then he started on a similar project using a Sierra 2.9 4x4...

He's now close to completion of a GT40, using a 350+bhp Chevy 5.7L.

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by garcon
He's now close to completion of a GT40, using a 350+bhp Chevy 5.7L.

That's... That's blasphemy!!!

He couldn't find a damn Ford 302 or 351W block to build up?!

Good lord...

[garcon]

I told him I didn't think Ford fans would be impressed, but apparently it's quite a common combination...

It's possible Chevy 5.7 blocks are easier (and cheaper) to come by over here. Dunno.

But you're right. It's wrong...

[Chui]

Let's see, the first car I bought was when I was working at GM. I purchased a '90 Geo Prism GSi [Toyota Corolla with the MR2 engine]. The second car I bought was a '99 Honda Civic Si. My current car is a '00 Honda Integra Type R. Notice the trend?

There are some decent American cars, but very few driver's cars. The Ford Mustang Bullitt is very nice, the Mustang Mach 1 with some modifications [anti-roll bars from the Bullitt] is very good. The Corvette Z06 puts down numbers that are amongst the best in the world, but on narrow, heavily cambered roads I'd imagine it's far from being at home, but probably no more so than a Ferrari 575 Maranello or a Porsche 996 GT2 or GT3.

For those totally bashing the US car choices please keep in mind the driving conditions; I struggle to find roads to "play" in my Honda. The freeways are wide open straight affairs until you get into California [along the coast] or the East coast [from South Carolina upwards]. The Midwest roads are b-o-r-i-n-gly flat. In short, the US is huge and relatively lightly populated so the areas of high population concentration don't have inviting road conditions, by and large, and the rest is just plain boring.

Also, automobiles are nothing more than appliances here. You NEED them to get to work and whatnot. Yes, there are some who see them as toys, but we're definitely in the minority. I'd imagine that if there was a well-built/maintained public transportation system more people would invest in "enthusiast" cars when they did choose to purchase one. As it stands the Cadillac, Town Car luxo-barge will not see much competition from the likes of BMW [God, I hope and pray!] as they are totally different types of machines and BMWs are out of their element to most Americans, just as Caddies and Town Cars are out of their element in Europe.

I think it's a case of <<vive la difference>>. And let's thank God for it. While I'd never choose an American car [outside of the three mentioned] as an enthusiast's car unless under threat, duress or coercion, to state that we are incapable of producing a driver's car is incorrect. The Ford GT will be interesting, very interesting.

[Lee Janotta]

Thank you Chui, very nicely stated.

And welcome.

[Bluebottle]

Welcome to the forum Chui!

[krt917]

Yeh, welcome, and some of the most sensible comments in the thread!

[Tristan]

Indeed, welcome Mr Chui. And I must say, I feel sorry for you!!

[429CJ]

Diego, Diego...

[Neil C]

One word: Saleen S7. Ok, it's two words, sorta. "The S7 is the quickest production car to 60mph we've ever tested: at 3.3 seconds it beats even the almighty McLaren F1 by a tenth."-Road & Track Magazine, June 2003

[garcon]

R&T may only have got 3.4 outta the McLaren F1, but isn't the official figure 3.2?

Splitting hairs I guess.

There's not much out there that sounds as good as a Saleen. And when I've seen them over here in the FIA GT, they tend to finish the race a lap or two ahead of the field...

[Smokey 6 litre]

does the GT40 count as a yank car?
british design, just badged as a Ford with their lump in the back.

[Tristan]

No.

HOWEVER, I do find the "new" one to be an utterly pointless waste of time, myself...

[Dani Filth]

Originally posted by Smokey 6 litre
does the GT40 count as a yank car?
british design, just badged as a Ford with their lump in the back.

i say NO .....

[bradenc]

I spent a year living in the states, and driving american cars, for the most part I had a 5 litre V8 Chevy Caprice, (police car /taxi). Now I loved that car, it was obviously shocking on fuel, but did I care when I was paying Under $1 a gallon, I loved filling up. It's all relative, sure a lot of US cars guzzle gas, but if you look at cash consumption per mile the US car is cheaper.

So my caprice was a shocker of a car, badly built, poor electrics tiny body. In general it seemed to me very little thought went into the car. But it was a yacht on wheels and I loved it.

To compare US and european cars is not fair, take them for what they are.

But I will say this, a US car in europe is an average or poor car, but a european car in the US is every bit as good as it was in europe.

Of course there are exceptions to the rule on both sides of the pond.

[Dick Spanner]

Tristan think of the Ford GT in these term's.

The GT40 was (arguably, taste's vary) a gorgeous looking car. Many people think "I would like to own a car that looked like that" but you are then stuck with a choice.

a. Save up hundred's of thousand's if not million's of pounds to buy one of a very limited number of original's.

b. Build a kit car. (potential disaster, christ know's I'd never drive a car I'd built myself with any gusto).

Then along come Ford who very kindly build a brand new one that has up to date mechanic's, electrics, reliabilty, warranty and is probably faster and more comfortable than the old one and at £90,000 is a relative bargain. Albeit a bargain I still can't afford!

I'm glad that companies like Ford are willing to churn out fun stuff like the GT along with the usual drudge, be it American or whatever (phew desperate attempt to at least mention the thread!)

[Bluebottle]

The new '40 captures the spirit of the original but probably (never seen or heard it, so I could be wrong ) dosn't have the same sounddue to current noise regs!
As for the fake 40's there are some god ones around for less than £20000 (Which would you rather drive, a car built on a line by loads of people who are board with building cars or a car built by one or two people who's ambition was to build a car?) There's nothing so bad about putting a Chevvy motor in a fake 40, after all most of them have Renault gearboxes







what was the question again?

[Dick Spanner]

You're probably right on the noise front BB but I think I'd still rather drive a car capable of 160mph that was built in a factory with QC checks rather than by me in an untidy garage using cheap tools and bit's of string and 6 inch nails.
That's not to denigrate the kit car industry, I know some of the kits are probably better built than the originals. Whilst I'm nowhere near the original thread (sorry chaps) the kit car industry is going to have to find a new gearbox because Renault are or have stopped making them.

[429CJ]

There's something rubbish, of course, in the no-so-distant history of the USA cars, here's my short list

-Flammable Ford Pinto
-Rearwheel-loosing Chevy Vega
-350 cid (5.7 litre) Oldsmobile diesel
-V4-6-8 engine of Cadillac

[Chui]

"There's something rubbish, of course, in the no-so-distant history of the USA cars, here's my short list..."

And we have a history of VWs [even now, Quality is about on par with that of a Ford], Peugeots, Renaults and just about every Fiat... And Ferrari has only recently built a modern vehicle.

BMW, Mercedes and Porsche, on the other hand have built modern, reliabe and DURABLE products for some time now.

The big difference btwn Euro cars and American cars is that more Euro cars are built for alpine conditions [French cars, Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus] and for autobahn conditions [BMW, Porsche, Ferrari & M-B] and a few trackday specials [Porsche, Ferrari, Lotus] while in the US we have the Z06 'Vette... So I'd say, as a unabashed car and driving enthusiast, that you guys certainly benefit from having a plethora of DRIVER'S CARS to choose from. Quality, defined as reliability, and $ of ownership is America's playground.

Give ME a choice and I'd opt for the driver's car [as long as I enjoyed "playing" in cars]. Reduce my income or if I looked at cars as mere transportation and a Japanese or American car would do just fine. Especially, if we assume that I lived in the US [which I do].

Pray for me, guys, that I'm never stripped of me income and interests!!!

[Lee Janotta]

Originally posted by 429CJ
-Rearwheel-loosing Chevy Vega

ONLY a rear wheel?! Wow, that one must have gotten some special TLC on the production line!

These things have been known to break in half going down the freeway!

[Neil C]

429cj, for every US industry mistake, I can name an equal from Europe or Japan.
-Honda Accord rustaway fenders
-Any Britmobile or donorcycle with Lucas Electrics
-Jaguar/Triumph/MG sidedraft carbs
-Yugo

[429CJ]

But then again, if you choose well, you don't have problems, like the second-hand Chevy pick-up I once had. I was very cautious, that it had this newer (Chevys own, I think?) 6.2 litre diesel instead of that 5.7 Olds lemon.