Mark Webber

Tiptop · 27 May 2004, 13:33 (Ref:985093)

IMO Mark Webber seems to be a mediocre driver in F1 and not suitable for a seat at Williams. I always rated Justin Wilson as a better racer and was not given aenough time at Jaguar to prove his worth (Klien seems to be a HUGE mistake again by top brass at Jag!!)

I haven't been blown away by any of his races so far this season or seen anything that suggests he is a great talent ?

I would like know the reasons as to why everyone thinks he is so Great????

Mr V · 27 May 2004, 13:39 (Ref:985099)

Well, if rumours turn out to be true, Sir Frank seems to think he's got what it takes, and i'm sure that SFW knows more than we do

D.R.T. · 27 May 2004, 13:40 (Ref:985100)

I think its got something to do with that he's always kicked the arse of his team mate, Justin inlcuded. Why do you rate him as medicore though, his driven a Minardi and scored the teams best pace in many years and has done more with a Jaguar then anyone else ever has. Qualifying 2nd at Sepang didnt impress you

Wrex · 27 May 2004, 13:40 (Ref:985102)

Who knows - that Frank Williams has always been a goose. And Patrick Head would'nt know a good driver if one ran over him in Pit lane.

The other drivers always put the 'not long for this world' drivers on the driver council (MW is on it with that other wanna be Michael Shcumacher).

I mean lets face it, he's been convincingly defeated by every team mate to date, and despite having the best car on the grid, has only managed 1 front row start this season.

Send him back home. [/sarcasm]

shiny side up! · 27 May 2004, 13:46 (Ref:985110)

Although I think it remains to be seen if Webber is as good as some people seem to think he is, you cannot argue with the fact that he is (and has always been) convincingly faster than his teammate. And when you are driving a

box like the Jag that doesn't even finish most of the races, your teammate is the most consistent barometer of driver performance that there is. On that scale, Webber is an

-kicker!

Anyway, to say Wilson is a better racer but just didn't get a chance is pretty ludicrous, me thinks...

Tiptop · 27 May 2004, 13:53 (Ref:985116)

your teammate is the most consistent barometer of driver performance that there is. On that scale, Webber is an

-kicker!

Anyway, to say Wilson is a better racer but just didn't get a chance is pretty ludicrous, me thinks...

[/B][/QUOTE]

This is something I don't understand ? Mark webber has had 2 years at Jaguar whereas his teammates.......Justin Wilson came from Minardi partway through the season from Minardi then had to adjust to a new team before being kicked off the team at the end of the season.

Pizzonia was struggling but then was sacked halfway through the season!

Surely people can see that this is unfair judgement ! I think if wilson was given the chance for a whole season we would see him outpace Webber....Klien seems destined to make Webber look even better this year!

shiny side up! · 27 May 2004, 14:00 (Ref:985124)

Again, I'm not a Webber fanatic.

But I do have eyes. And a brain. That can usually be relied upon to have the ability to understand facts.

FACT: Webber beat Wilson comprehensibly whilst they were both at Jag.

SPECULATION: Wilson would have proved to be better than Webber had he had a full year to race with Jag

FACT: No F1 team currently employs Wilson

SPECULATION: I think Wilson has potential (really). I think the rule about experience for Friday Test Drivers this year screwed him royally.

But I see no FACTS that point to Wilson actually being better than Webber. Just as there are (as of yet) no facts saying a certain ex-WDC (or an ex 2X WDC!!!) will test an F1 car this year. And there is no proof that I am actually making this post from my Mars outpost.

spider · 27 May 2004, 14:02 (Ref:985128)

I think you'll find that WHEN Webber gets a top drive he'll be RIGHT at the front. Michael rates him VERY highly, and that says it all. MW is the coming man and has a very good approach. Everyone in Jaguar loves him, and he's suprememly quick. I have no doubt he's one of the top 5 drivers on the grid.

Tiptop · 27 May 2004, 14:14 (Ref:985141)

I also have eyes and a brain which can rely upon myself making judgement and having my own opinions!

Yes you are correct my views are pure speculation with regards to Wilson beating Webber if he had a full year in F1 at Jag.

I'm not a Wilson fan and I don't dislike Webber but if you look back to prior to F1 (F3000) there is a slight fact that Justin is a better driver seeing as he won the title and webber came 2nd (with a huge points difference!)

However F1 is a funny world and perhaps Wilson was never going to be taken seriously due to his height and that's why he is now in america.

IMO Wilson is better than Webber but we will now never see it......

Kicking-back · 27 May 2004, 14:35 (Ref:985165)

Webber also gets on well with various journalists, which always helps get good publicity.

Mark Webber · 27 May 2004, 14:41 (Ref:985172)

this is point less

Tiptop · 27 May 2004, 14:44 (Ref:985176)

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Webber
this is point less

Thought it might be for someone called Mark Webber!

Mark Webber · 27 May 2004, 14:48 (Ref:985182)

belive what you want ! but I will have pies wait for you .

Bristol hmm UK right ? what a suprize

Tiptop · 27 May 2004, 14:50 (Ref:985185)

hmmm Australia... Mark Webber for WDC huge suprise get real mate if you don't want to discuss this in a mature manner then get off the post!

Mark Webber · 27 May 2004, 15:12 (Ref:985211)

blah blah blah

The fact that Mark is one of the most respect driver in pit lane by hs peers and by YOUR press is not enough let alone dragging a dead cat up the grid still not enough
hmm lets see
as a test driver he has beaten consistantly
Fissi
Button
Trulli
Wurz
Alonso
as a Team mate in F1
WILSON
Young
Pizza
Davidson
Kilen
hmmm still not enough
1st driver to put a Jag on the 2nd row
on the board on the Driver commity (VOTED BY DRIVERS)
oh and is the sole key driver to next year sily season (but what would MB right)
scored 2 pts in 1st year
18 in yr 2
thats 39 starts and 20 points not many can cliam that ratio
ths is a outstanding list for a driver in his 3yr of F1
as I said belive what you want but your current thinking holds no water
so build a bridge and get over it

Tiptop · 27 May 2004, 15:19 (Ref:985222)

Hmm yes consistently beaten the above in testing means jack ****! Testing is testing (variable fuel loads, different tyre compositions so who knows what his team mates were doing during those tests!)

I can honestly say that Mark Webber is a good driver but not as good as many people make out..lets hope he gets the williams seat next year with one of the drivers he's so called consistently beaten (hah!)

Let's hope he's not paired with someone with little F1 experience and then kicked out of the team before they can prove they are better!

Mark Webber · 27 May 2004, 15:20 (Ref:985223)

we shall see

freud · 27 May 2004, 15:23 (Ref:985224)

Imho Mark's situation is much comparable to someone like J. Pablo. Both come from countries which are under-represented in F1. The press does get excited when you have someone coming in from Australia or Colombia. I mean how many f1 champs have these countries produced in past 40 years? But that, Imho, doesnt take anything away from Juan Pablo's or Mark W.'s talents.

I, for one, cant wait to see Mark in a Williams BMW next season. Now that Sam Michael is incharge at Williams, I see it more closer to reality.

As for Webber's teammates... I cant comment on it as we cannot say for sure if Jag is a one-man team.

Kicking-back · 27 May 2004, 16:25 (Ref:985261)

Quote:

Originally posted by freud

I, for one, cant wait to see Mark in a Williams BMW next season. Now that Sam Michael is incharge at Williams, I see it more closer to reality.

Sam Michael's new job doesn't increase or decrease Webber's chance of a Williams drive.

Knowlesy · 27 May 2004, 19:54 (Ref:985411)

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiptop
I haven't been blown away by any of his races so far this season or seen anything that suggests he is a great talent ?

May I suggest, my friend, a visit to Specsavers opticians? They will give you a free eye test and supply glasses which you could possibly get free on the NHS. Failing that, there's always contact lenses!

Webbers got that special something.....he's damn fast, which is blatantly obvious and he's held in high regard by many a team boss as to his work rate and team play.

He's destined for great things!

grumpy1 · 27 May 2004, 21:10 (Ref:985468)

The day will come when Webber is in a car(Williams)that is competitive with the front runners.He will also have a team mate that has his attitude to racing,you go flat out as soon as the light goes green.
Granted his team mates to date have all been rookies so comparing him to them is unfair to both parties.
You need to go back to his sports car days and see if he could match it with the drivers going around in that series.He had a competitive car and proved he had the pace.He also proved he was nuts by getting back into a car he fliped the day before.MS once said you can tell a racer by looking into his eyes once the helmet was on.A racer has a steally glare that is focused and without fear. Webber has this and will one day given a competitive car would challange for WDC.Now MS has 6 WDC's(7 after this year)so I think we can take it for granted he knows what hes talking about.Sir Frank & Mr Head seem to think so as well as well as uncle Burnie and his manager Fulvio B.
As I said at the start of this post Mr Webber will have his chance to convince the world that his is as good as others think but not till next year.Until then we should all reserve our judgements.
Yes I am a Webber fan as well as a Jaguar fan.It pains me to see both where they are.Jag showed heaps of promise in Webbers first year there but unfortunatly for both it has disappeared after round 2 this season.One will suggest that the unrest within the team knowing that Mr Webber will not be with them next year is not playing well on the team but thats another tread.
Lets wait till next year when he has a front running car to pass judgement.

The Grumpy1

hgmonaro · 28 May 2004, 01:33 (Ref:985649)

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiptop
I'm not a Wilson fan and I don't dislike Webber but if you look back to prior to F1 (F3000) there is a slight fact that Justin is a better driver seeing as he won the title and webber came 2nd (with a huge points difference!)

I have no facts to back myself up, but didn't Webber have problems in the last half of the season. Did he miss races due a crash?

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiptop
However F1 is a funny world and perhaps Wilson was never going to be taken seriously due to his height and that's why he is now in america.

Webber is also quite tall. Not as tall as Wilson.. maybe someone got the stats?

freud · 28 May 2004, 01:57 (Ref:985658)

Quote:

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Sam Michael's new job doesn't increase or decrease Webber's chance of a Williams drive.

Probability-wise, it doesnt but they would make a pretty good combination. And I do believe that FW is very keen on Webber. He is not only a good driver but a fine technical driver as well, much in the mold of Damon Hill. Also, as Button is not available, that automatically makes Webber a fav. for a seat at Williams.

grumpy1 · 28 May 2004, 02:06 (Ref:985660)

Did he miss races due a crash?(from hgmonaro)
No he didn't miss a race.
He crashed out of the USGP due to a late call on changeing to wets.He was actually leading the race at the time.
The other quailty Webber has is the abbility to set up a car and provide feedback that assists the team.

The Grumpy1

Skam85 · 28 May 2004, 10:59 (Ref:986075)

I think he meant F3000

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