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Old 18 Oct 2008, 01:56 (Ref:2315060)   #1
Dasher
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Egg Women in Circuit Racing

Will a female driver ever win a Motor Racing Championship?

This question opens the discussion about whether or not there will ever be a female driver win a driving championship in classes like Aussie V8's, F1, F3, Nascar, Indy/Champ cars, BTCC etc etc?

There has been the odd female won drag championships like Shirley Muldowney "The First Lady Of Drag Racing" won 3 NHRA top fuel championships in 1977,`80 and `82..., & some have won important races like the Dakar Rally, but never a circuit racing championship

In my opinion there never has been or will be.

What does everyone else think???????
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 03:13 (Ref:2315066)   #2
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Have to say this sport we love is defiantly a male dominated sport, we may get the odd female that will come through worth keeping an eye on but the numbers aren’t in their favor.

To be a champion of a top end Motorsport series might just take a bit of something the females just can’t deliver on – testosterone. Would love to be proven wrong (as long as it’s not Danica Patrick)

I'm looking forward to see what Tander can do in FV8's

Site below dedicated to a hand full of female racers


www.girl-racers.com
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 05:37 (Ref:2315083)   #3
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Tanders not bad, probably the best female going around in Australia at the moment but just falls short of the mark, always has always will.

Couldn't quite make it in karts
Couldn't quite make it in Formula Ford
Couldn't quite make it in Development series the first time she did it.
Couldn't quite make it in Australian F3 despite having the best car in the field and doing a darn good job.

And wont make it next year if she goes to the Fujitsu series as well, she'll be competitive but will fall just short again.

I reckon being married to GT gets her a foot in the door as well.

Only reason she or most females get a go is because a female with limited to reasonable talent is much more marketable than a male with equal or much more talent, money talks always has & always will.


Have a look at Danica Patrick if you don't believe me,good looker,very very marketable, reasonable to good talent, but when push comes to shove she cant cut it, making out she is going to belt somebody in pit lane knowing that if it came down to it she would never go through with it but makes a big deal out of it by marching off down pit lane with the TV cameras & security guys in tow, but again she is a very marketable commodity, money talks.

If a female driver ever wins an F1,V8's,F3, Champ/Indy car or any other major championship, I will happily withdraw my comments.

Until then, there never has been or ever will be a female driver that wins a major motor racing championship.

Last edited by Dasher; 18 Oct 2008 at 05:42.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 06:17 (Ref:2315086)   #4
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I beleive that the problem has, and always will be, a simple case of numbers. Almost every guy is interested in racing cars, whereas maybe .01% of women are. Therefore, you are always going to end up with a thousand times more guys making it than women, simply because a thousand times more guys try.

If things change and more women become interested, expect to see more women making it big time on the track.

I don't think it's a lack of ability, simply a lack of interest from the majority of women to give it a go. Those that do show equal ability to the guys.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 09:32 (Ref:2315161)   #5
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it would be good to see women get more involved certainly puts the ego's out of joint.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 11:31 (Ref:2315229)   #6
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Rob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridRob29 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
In UK Amanda Whitaker twice won Monoposto championship.Tina Cooper won Mini7 Championship
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 12:09 (Ref:2315242)   #7
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Did Lella Lombardi win any championships? Michelle Mouton came second in the WRC in the mid 80s for Audi, but can't be certain a woman has won any prominent championships
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 15:10 (Ref:2315306)   #8
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From memory she (Mouton) won the 1986 German Rally Championship in a Peugeot 205T16 as well

Claudia Hurtgen has won touring car series (albeit not overly major ones) in Europe

Ellen Lohr won a round of the 1992 DTM at Hockenheim
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 15:55 (Ref:2315321)   #9
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A MAJOR circuit racing championship, not drags, not rally, circuit racing.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 18:24 (Ref:2315391)   #10
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I think Gaz170 has got it right, it simply lack of numbers, I don't think lack of testosterone is a problem, anyone who saw Katherine Legges Road America Champ Car accident and her attitude after the crash must realise that. If they could have given her another car and allowed her to race I have no doubt she would have continued, she was in eight place I believe when a tab fell of her rear wing causing her car to pitch into the fence. The point is the womans got the right attitude the guts and the determination, I am not sure that she has the skill to be a champion but I would be happy to be proven wrong, frankly if there were enough women in motor racing with Legges approach to the sport and sooner or later we would see an international female racing champion.
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Old 18 Oct 2008, 23:33 (Ref:2315527)   #11
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Tina Cooper won Mini7 Championship
How appropriate
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 03:49 (Ref:2315597)   #12
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Sheer numbers is the key as mentioned before. Besides, there's plenty of male racers who will never win a Championship either..... Mark Webber never won a Championship yet he's an F1 driver

Plenty of guys will never achieve what plenty of female racers have either.
Maybe there never will be a female champ, but it shouldn't stop them from trying (and at least winning races and putting noses out of joint )
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 03:58 (Ref:2315603)   #13
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putting noses out of joint )
Especially Dashers it would seem
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 09:09 (Ref:2315707)   #14
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Originally Posted by Rob29
In UK Amanda Whitaker twice won Monoposto championship.Tina Cooper won Mini7 Championship
Also in the uk there are 2 other lady drivers worth keeping an eye on.

Abbey Eaton and Cassey Watson.
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 09:25 (Ref:2315736)   #15
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Especially Dashers it would seem
No sizzle, I have no problem with any of this discussion you are free to have your opinion about it.

My point is, as i have stated earlier in this thread, do females with reasonable to good ability get a drive over a male with good to excellent ability & speed because the female with some ability is a more marketable commodity than the male.

Thus attracting the more of the elusive sponsorship dollars for the team than the male commodity may do.

Therefore if a female is awarded the drive for this reason, will one ever be able to win a championship, I don't think so?

Never has been, never will be "In my opinion".
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 13:08 (Ref:2315878)   #16
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My point is, as i have stated earlier in this thread, do females with reasonable to good ability get a drive over a male with good to excellent ability & speed because the female with some ability is a more marketable commodity than the male.
Yes they do but it also happens with male drivers. For example Grant Denyer. At the top levels the line between business and sport get blurred and getting a more marketable driver can provide longer term benefits for the team.
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Old 19 Oct 2008, 20:08 (Ref:2316161)   #17
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Yes they do but it also happens with male drivers. For example Grant Denyer. At the top levels the line between business and sport get blurred and getting a more marketable driver can provide longer term benefits for the team.
So are you saying that Grant Denyer has reasonable ability then, or that he has female tendencies ?
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Old 20 Oct 2008, 01:19 (Ref:2316317)   #18
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I can't really comment on the professional level, but certainly at the club level, the environment that "some" clubs thrive on are clearly not geared toward setting girls up with a career in motorsport. In my experience, girls get turned off long before they get a chance to prove themselves as quality drivers, which begs the question, are the handful of girls that get through really the best drivers and therefore a good representation of what women can really achieve in a race car? I do admit my opinions are biased because of some of the treatment my wife received at events in the past.

I find it interesting that any female that succeeds, is automatically evaluated in terms of what male attributes she has that lead to the success. I personally think the sport has a lot of growing up to do in this area, and I know very few would believe that “you can do anything” line really applies to females in motorsport. Maybe it starts with that scary phrase "You were beaten by a girl!".

Now we just need a few more posts on physical strength to really get this going!
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Old 20 Oct 2008, 07:02 (Ref:2316388)   #19
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Law of averages says it's not likely to happen.

Ignoring the physical (strength...) limitations of a female driver just look at how many red blooded Aussie males you have to choose from (versus females) to find 28 V8 Supercar drivers - is it as high as a 1000 male drivers to each female driver ?

Interesting to see how (Ron Dennis) McLaren became involved with Lewis Hamilton at the tender age of 12 (in Karts) & virtually gifted him a scholarship right through to F1. Wonder if this could be done with a talented female Karter too ???
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Old 20 Oct 2008, 11:56 (Ref:2316626)   #20
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Now we just need a few more posts on physical strength to really get this going!
What you mean things like Danica Patrick getting special trials with the new power steer unit before anyone else gets it.
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Old 20 Oct 2008, 20:19 (Ref:2316972)   #21
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all good points about law of averages etc... once upon a time, a freckle-nose mere slip of a girl drove an HDT Torana at Bathurst, drove a works Alfa Romeo into a position to potentially win the ATCC (pulling out after coming down with a womanly dose of the pregnants IIRC), punted the V8 hero cars most effectively (although perhaps unfairly, is best remembered for her part in shortening the 1981 JH1000, never mind that she was running a solid sixth outright at that stage) and ended her tin-top career mentoring Glenn Seton at Bathurst in an evil little orphan from the works Nissan squad...

Christine Gibson (nee Cole), take a bow...
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Old 20 Oct 2008, 21:48 (Ref:2317052)   #22
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Christine Gibson was one hell of a steerer but unfortunately fits into the same Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda category as a whole heap of other female drivers over the decades.

It has nothing to do with law of averages, there are as many females as males interested in this sport although some are a bit shy to advertise it and don't readily come out of the closet.

No female ever has or ever will win a championship of a major importance, they simply don't have the gonads when it comes down to the bottom line.

They might make a bit of a substantial ripple on the surface for a while, but in the end for whatever reason, they always have and always will fail to deliver in the end.

What ever way you look at it, this is fact.
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Old 20 Oct 2008, 22:07 (Ref:2317071)   #23
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What you mean things like Danica Patrick getting special trials with the new power steer unit before anyone else gets it.
I hadn’t heard about the power steering, but yeah, I think it’s valid. It’s seems funny that you have people at all levels requesting parity, but when it comes to setting up a level playing field between the sexes by allowing or limiting certain mods, it’s suddenly not viable?

I remember hearing one of the girls after trying what I think was an under 2 litre sports sedan who said the “steering is just too heavy” (presumably due to the quick rack and slicks), and the “brake pedal was too hard to push down” (I think it was because the brake booster had been removed to save weight). Obviously her comments received plenty of smirks, but if the category was restricted to a standard steering rack and brake booster, couldn’t we eliminate the supposed male advantage, so it’s just about car control and race craft? Who knows what could change the culture hurdle though.
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Old 20 Oct 2008, 23:55 (Ref:2317126)   #24
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Originally Posted by Dasher
Christine Gibson was one hell of a steerer but unfortunately fits into the same Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda category as a whole heap of other female drivers over the decades.

It has nothing to do with law of averages, there are as many females as males interested in this sport although some are a bit shy to advertise it and don't readily come out of the closet.

No female ever has or ever will win a championship of a major importance, they simply don't have the gonads when it comes down to the bottom line.

They might make a bit of a substantial ripple on the surface for a while, but in the end for whatever reason, they always have and always will fail to deliver in the end.

What ever way you look at it, this is fact.
It's fact they've never won. It's a bit hard to proclaim fact on stuff that's not happened yet. Who would have predicted 20 years ago you'd have a West Indian heritage driver leading the Formula 1 Drivers Championship? You'd have been laughed out of the paddock.
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Old 21 Oct 2008, 00:05 (Ref:2317132)   #25
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Re Patrick and PS

See this thread
http://tentenths.com/forum/archive/i.../t-109234.html

A couple of other quotes on that subject. To be fair many in the IRL have made mention of the Power Steering issue in the past. This was more to the point that they gave it to her and Manning to test in a race when others did not have it.

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Imagine what it’s like for Danica Patrick, who at 5 foot and 100 pounds is the lightest driver in a major auto racing series, and most likely the lightest in history. The three lightest male IndyCar Series drivers are Marco Andretti (135), Darren Manning (135) and Vitor Meira (141). Brazilian stars Helio Castroneves and Tony Kanaan each weigh 147, and the rest of the drivers are at least 150 pounds.
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“I think power steering would (make a huge difference), for sure. I think (not having) it is hurting her a little bit,” said Patrick’s car owner and former driver, Michael Andretti. “It’s very hard for all the guys. If they’re all complaining about it, you know it’s tough on her. But you’ve got to give her credit. She’s pretty strong, man.”
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/20393876/



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Patrick, female pioneers search for equal ground in auto racing
Link here

Sorry if it's a bit off topic (topic being under Aussie / NZ Touring Cars)
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