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Old 16 Jul 2017, 09:41 (Ref:3751594)   #4981
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LMP1 hybrids.
Well of course, they are factory cars.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 11:11 (Ref:3751606)   #4982
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carbsmith should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridcarbsmith should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridcarbsmith should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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True. But what happened this year doesn't happen very often. Is it worth it to stick around and be an also ran for years just to get one opportunity?
That's how this sports car racing thing works, isn't it? Nobody cares Mazda's Group C program wasn't much better than ByKolles most of the time.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 17:04 (Ref:3751871)   #4983
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Pescarolo was an also-ran at LM each year his team raced there from 2000-2004 before 2005 and '06, even if he was the best of the rest in 2000, and '04-08. He was also basically downgraded to also-ran status after Peugeot showed up.

Also, since the stuff the ACO tried with the aero packages on LMP1 cars didn't slow them down in terms of laptime, what else can the ACO do? They can't take away anymore top end power, and doing more aero stuff would just be stupid because we've already seen Porsche and Toyota get back what they tried to take away.

Only thing I can see them do is increase minimum weight. But then I think that maybe, unless the LMP1s still have straight line acceleration over the LMP2s, the LMP2s might get pegged back on top end.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 21:05 (Ref:3751980)   #4984
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True. But what happened this year doesn't happen very often. Is it worth it to stick around and be an also ran for years just to get one opportunity?
Quite possibly.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 21:24 (Ref:3751997)   #4985
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True. But what happened this year doesn't happen very often. Is it worth it to stick around and be an also ran for years just to get one opportunity?
But surely the teams are there because they want to race anyway? If the attitude is that if you can't win, don't turn up, then we'll have some very very small grids soon.
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Old 16 Jul 2017, 21:34 (Ref:3751999)   #4986
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I think that we're seeing that in LMP1. Why be an also ran in LMP1 when you can do no worse in LMP2 for a much smaller sum of money? And likely end up with a chance to win or podium without big money factory team interference?
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 04:47 (Ref:3752061)   #4987
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TzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridTzeiTzei should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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But surely the teams are there because they want to race anyway? If the attitude is that if you can't win, don't turn up, then we'll have some very very small grids soon.
That's what we have right now.
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 06:52 (Ref:3752073)   #4988
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Next year you can run lmp1 for not too much more than the current lmp2's. They need to be powerful and lightweight. If they can make around 700hp and weigh 830kg, any reasonable design will be a rocketship. Kolles was able to do 3:24 and they're well overweight with less power than that.
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 17:31 (Ref:3752184)   #4989
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
They need to develop a set of rules that allows engine builders the freedom to enter what they want and also be reasonably competitive with it.

We should have V12, V10, V8s, turbo V6 etc etc.
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 19:11 (Ref:3752208)   #4990
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Fuel flow?
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 19:46 (Ref:3752213)   #4991
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I say scrap the fuel flow and ERS incentive and go back to air restrictors and a hard cap on max MJ and balance performance from there.
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 19:55 (Ref:3752215)   #4992
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They need to develop a set of rules that allows engine builders the freedom to enter what they want and also be reasonably competitive with it.
Soooo LMP1 then?
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Old 17 Jul 2017, 22:41 (Ref:3752268)   #4993
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I know that this thread is mostly about technical regulations, but I wonder what the opinion is regarding Le Mans' place in the WEC? Should it be a points paying race, non-points or how should the points be staggered/awarded for LM?

I bring this up because the deal where Porsche called in team orders at Nurburgring was brought about almost entirely due to the #1 Porsche's DNF at LM and not scoring points, while the #2 that won brought home 50 points, worth two regular WEC wins. Right now, the #1 Porsche and more so the #7 Toyota aren't serious threats to the #2 Porsche and #8 Toyota in the championship. Hence they'll probably be forced to play #2/tail gunner for their higher ranked teammates for the rest of the season whenever Porsche or TMG see fit. We know that Neel Jani and especially Andre Lotterer reportedly felt cheated out of an easy win after Porsche made the decision to play team orders with that last pit stop.

Problem is that this is also a team sport with a manufacturers' title on the line, and if a team can make a play to favor a higher ranked team with a significant points cushion and not jeopardize the manufactures' points haul, they'll probably do it, just like often happens in F1.

And this isn't the first time this happened. Penske regularly pulled it with his teams in the ALMS, and even Audi at times did it to pad a driving pair's points, especially when their other team was out of it for the drivers' title. And we know that Audi often wouldn't play team orders, but they did at races in 2008 (Nurburgring LMS and Road America ALMS to benefit the drivers' championship, and PLM '08 to get the race win with their faster car), ironically due to losing the '07 ALMS Road America round due to not calling team orders to pass the #7 Penske Porsche then try and settle the win.

I'm in favor of LM not being a points paying WEC round, and being treated like an all star race. It wouldn't effect the rest of the season as far as points. It would also get around teams compromising part of their season by having to call strategy on when to run certain body kits (WEC would place the whole focus on sprint kits, since LM will be LM and not a championship round). And we have to remember until the ILMC and WEC, LM hadn't been a points paying race for any championship since 1992. Not for IMSA, the FIA SCC, the ALMS, or the LMS.

Of course, I know that some of you won't like that idea. But I also don't think that LM, if it's part of the championship, should just have equal points as a 6 hour or 1000km race. Only other way I can see getting around this is do as the ALMS used to do and if you run 70% of the winners' distance/time, you automatically get points based on in-class position, whether or not you finish or not, and make it apply to all races.

That wouldn't have done the #7 Toyota any good, as they got no where near 70% distance, and it would only have been of useful benefit to the #1 Porsche if they were scored in LMP1 alone, and not LMP1 and LMP2 combined. But I do feel that those are the only two main ways to keep one race, no matter how important, from spoiling a potential championship chase.
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 00:41 (Ref:3752285)   #4994
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Of course, I know that some of you won't like that idea. But I also don't think that LM, if it's part of the championship, should just have equal points as a 6 hour or 1000km race. Only other way I can see getting around this is do as the ALMS used to do and if you run 70% of the winners' distance/time, you automatically get points based on in-class position, whether or not you finish or not, and make it apply to all races.
I think this approach would spoil the last portion of the race, or at least temper some of the drama. Conversely, seperating Le Mans from the rest of the WEC would devalue the championship massively if it were done today. I'd much rather see more distinctive premier-level events added to the WEC schedule, even if it were at the cost of a few of the more marginal current events. This would hopefully reduce the likelyhood of team orders because these events would be treated with a higher level of reverence than many of the mid-season races currently are.

Some are protective of the "crown jewel" status Le Mans retains, but I believe the difference in prestige level between Le Mans and other WEC events could be greatly reduced without any real threat to the prominence or weight of Le Mans. I'm sure the ACO see things somewhat differently, though.
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Old 18 Jul 2017, 17:19 (Ref:3752456)   #4995
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Sodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridSodemo should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
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Soooo LMP1 then?
Well, kinda. Except I think the rules are now skewed towards turbo charging. Nobody wants to enter a NA V8 now.
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