Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Classic Cars Monthly Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Historic Racing & Motorsport History > Historic Racing Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 14 Aug 2013, 09:32 (Ref:3289590)   #1
Chris Wilson
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
United Kingdom
Shropshire
Posts: 188
Chris Wilson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Any series likely for earlier F3000 cars?

I have been away from the scene for a while with work commitments. I have a 1991 Lola T91/50 F3000 (ex Heinz-Harald Frentzen Camel sponsored car) with an unrun fully Engine Developments rebuilt, straight off the ED dyno Mugen in it. Are there likely to be any series for it in the UK in the offing? Elsewhere? Thanks.
Chris Wilson is offline  
__________________
Best regards,
Chris Wilson
Quote
Old 14 Aug 2013, 11:43 (Ref:3289650)   #2
Biscuits In A Red Bull
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
United Kingdom
Posts: 2,650
Biscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridBiscuits In A Red Bull should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You could probably run it in hillclimbs, and the higher classes. Nice car!
Biscuits In A Red Bull is offline  
__________________
"Is this stock car racing or is this motorsport?!" - John Cleland
Quote
Old 14 Aug 2013, 11:52 (Ref:3289658)   #3
Alan Crook
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location:
Silverstone
Posts: 784
Alan Crook should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I think the only series at present for this would be the BOSS (Big Open Single Seater) Series, mostly racing in Europe. I think there are already some old F3000 cars racing including some from the same age as yours.
Alan Crook is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Aug 2013, 12:42 (Ref:3289686)   #4
adam46
Racer
 
adam46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
United Kingdom
Isle Of Wight, UK.
Posts: 474
adam46 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridadam46 should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Crook View Post
I think the only series at present for this would be the BOSS (Big Open Single Seater) Series, mostly racing in Europe. I think there are already some old F3000 cars racing including some from the same age as yours.
This is the only series that leaps to mind other than Irish Formula Libre. The guys at BOSS GP are having a tough year for many reasons to do with the FIA but from what I hear next year will have a full series and grids of a good size. With your car you would be in the Masters Class, which includes F3000 cars, pre-1992 Formula One and some World Series By Renault machinery. Also, in classes that also occupy the track there are offerings from the world of Indy Car, Champ Car and Formula One cars from 2004 or later. If you search for BOSSman here, drop him a Private Message or look on the BOSS GP website to contact him.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope to see your machine out on track sometime soon. It sounds excellent!

Last edited by adam46; 14 Aug 2013 at 12:47.
adam46 is offline  
__________________
If you ever want anything written regarding Motorsport I am here for you!

It only matters if it has a motor...
Quote
Old 14 Aug 2013, 17:54 (Ref:3289803)   #5
Tim Barry
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
United Kingdom
Rainham, Kent, UK
Posts: 118
Tim Barry should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
You could always enter the Libre race at the Walter Hayes at Silverstone. We have run our F5000 there (and will again this year if we can finish the rebuild in time!) and Chris Woodcock runs his F1-engined F3000.
Tim Barry is offline  
Quote
Old 14 Aug 2013, 22:26 (Ref:3289913)   #6
Chris Wilson
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
United Kingdom
Shropshire
Posts: 188
Chris Wilson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
The Woodcock tribe were very helpful and supportive, and the car was driven very enthusiastically last time I saw them at Donington. The car's tub is still in bare carbon awaiting my decision to sell or use. Now, where's that lottery ticket, I must take it to the newsagents, *SURELY* this one is a winner
Chris Wilson is offline  
__________________
Best regards,
Chris Wilson
Quote
Old 16 Aug 2013, 12:42 (Ref:3290687)   #7
Patmo
Rookie
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7
Patmo should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
HI
I am racing the XL formula trophy with my Reynard 95D (Ex Kenny Brack) with the Holden engine
We have 2 F1, Indy car, 3 GP2, 1 A1GP, 2 WS 3.5L, 5 F3000 Zyteck and for the time being my 95D Holden
not too bad for a first year !
we expect more in 2014

See www.XLformula.org
FYI I wrote a short article on why I choos the holden engine despite it's low 350 HP
http://www.xlformula.org/app/downloa..._XLFormula.pdf

Next races
Paul Ricard 30/08
Magny Cours 15/10

do not hesitate to get in touch with me if I can help
Regards
Patrick Morrissey
pmorrissey@sfr.fr
Patmo is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Aug 2013, 23:17 (Ref:3290831)   #8
Thundersports
Veteran
 
Thundersports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Balearic Islands
On the dark side of the moon
Posts: 1,660
Thundersports should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by adam46 View Post
This is the only series that leaps to mind other than Irish Formula Libre. The guys at BOSS GP are having a tough year for many reasons to do with the FIA but from what I hear next year will have a full series and grids of a good size. With your car you would be in the Masters Class, which includes F3000 cars, pre-1992 Formula One and some World Series By Renault machinery. Also, in classes that also occupy the track there are offerings from the world of Indy Car, Champ Car and Formula One cars from 2004 or later. If you search for BOSSman here, drop him a Private Message or look on the BOSS GP website to contact him.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope to see your machine out on track sometime soon. It sounds excellent!
BOSS will be a waste of time for your car even if Vettel drove it. You 'll get ****ed all over by the cheap modern World series and Gp2 cars. When they aren't the 2005 Jaguar will be coming round to lap you or push you out the way. The 1997 flat bottomed Benetton which is well driven struggles to stay ahead of a 2007 GP2 car in the series.
Thundersports is offline  
Quote
Old 16 Aug 2013, 23:23 (Ref:3290832)   #9
Thundersports
Veteran
 
Thundersports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Balearic Islands
On the dark side of the moon
Posts: 1,660
Thundersports should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Barry View Post
You could always enter the Libre race at the Walter Hayes at Silverstone. We have run our F5000 there (and will again this year if we can finish the rebuild in time!) and Chris Woodcock runs his F1-engined F3000.
This along with Irish Libre sounds a much better plan> The poster is getting confused between Gary and Michael Woodcock and Chris Woodhouse. Chris Woodhouse has 2 Ex Dams/Superpower Lola T90/50s he runs one with a DFR, a really nice/decent chap who is always helpful PM me as I have his number.
Thundersports is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Aug 2013, 08:56 (Ref:3290910)   #10
Tim Barry
Racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
United Kingdom
Rainham, Kent, UK
Posts: 118
Tim Barry should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Sorry! Was being a muppet! Of course I meant Chris WOODHOUSE!
Tim Barry is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Aug 2013, 09:42 (Ref:3290918)   #11
chris bailey
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 235
chris bailey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridchris bailey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Interesting thread!

We were having a discussion last week about which single-seater we'd like to have alongside the sports cars we run. F3000, from the early days, came out as top choice. However, when you go looking for one, they're like hen's teeth! We're only interested in the pre-carbon fibre era cars, so March or Lola chassis with a soft-tune DFV would be favourite. Anybody out there know where we might find one.......?
chris bailey is offline  
Quote
Old 17 Aug 2013, 17:24 (Ref:3291041)   #12
SAMD
Veteran
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,523
SAMD should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridSAMD should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris bailey View Post
Interesting thread!

We were having a discussion last week about which single-seater we'd like to have alongside the sports cars we run. F3000, from the early days, came out as top choice. However, when you go looking for one, they're like hen's teeth! We're only interested in the pre-carbon fibre era cars, so March or Lola chassis with a soft-tune DFV would be favourite. Anybody out there know where we might find one.......?
Tommy Reid has a 91 Lola with a DFV in it and I cant see him running it again. Although I am pretty sure it has a Carbon Tub
SAMD is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 04:36 (Ref:3291205)   #13
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Don't forget, the initial cars were ex Formula 1 Chassis. IIRC there were Tyrrels and Marches.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 06:39 (Ref:3291218)   #14
andy97
Veteran
 
andy97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
United Kingdom
Castle Donington
Posts: 4,982
andy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridandy97 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris bailey View Post
Interesting thread!

We were having a discussion last week about which single-seater we'd like to have alongside the sports cars we run. F3000, from the early days, came out as top choice. However, when you go looking for one, they're like hen's teeth! We're only interested in the pre-carbon fibre era cars, so March or Lola chassis with a soft-tune DFV would be favourite. Anybody out there know where we might find one.......?
You'd think that there would be quite a few about really, especially if you included the later one make Lolas. I think a few went off in to the European Hillclimb scene.

Dermot Healy sometimes has F3000s for sale - try him, he may be able to source something. I know he has had a few cars pass through his hands, which I think have been sold on to South Africa. And he certainly has a few F3000 spares available at the moment.

It would be great to see a "historic" F3000 series develop.
andy97 is offline  
__________________
Born in the Midlands, made in the Royal Navy
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 15:21 (Ref:3291334)   #15
chris bailey
Racer
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 235
chris bailey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridchris bailey should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Don't forget, the initial cars were ex Formula 1 Chassis. IIRC there were Tyrrels and Marches.
The early cars fell into two distinct groups. There was a team run by ex-Fittipaldi F1 manager, Peter Mackintosh which used new FW08 Williams chassis, as well as a team using Tyrells. March, being March, and being smart, elected to use an adapted F2 chassis. History clearly shows who took the right approach. The F1 cars were too heavy, not designed around the smaller tyres, and had too much aero for the available power. March, throughout its history, was very adept at upgrading cars to a higher performance category, especially in the mid-1970's. The first F3000 was a perfect example of this philosophy, i.e. small, light, simple, fast. No wonder it cleaned up. Lola's later effort was equally well resolved. Where the formula lost its way (IMO) was when the first carbon cars appeared and costs escalated. The spec formula solution, although highly competitive, was of little interest from a technical standpoint, so my interest in owning anything of that type is nil.
chris bailey is offline  
Quote
Old 18 Aug 2013, 17:43 (Ref:3291401)   #16
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Fair enough I was just pointing out the genesis of the championship. I think it had two aims, the first to use up the supply of DFVS and second to replace F2 because that had got too expensive.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 19 Aug 2013, 11:00 (Ref:3291667)   #17
PeterMorley
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
United Kingdom
Belgium
Posts: 952
PeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Mallett View Post
Fair enough I was just pointing out the genesis of the championship. I think it had two aims, the first to use up the supply of DFVS and second to replace F2 because that had got too expensive.
There is a story that when F1 went turbo Bernie E. bought up a load of DFVs and then invented a series for them...
I've always wondered how much truth there was in that, certainly F2 needed replacing because it had become dominated by the Honda works team.
PeterMorley is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Aug 2013, 11:22 (Ref:3291674)   #18
Chris Wilson
Racer
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
United Kingdom
Shropshire
Posts: 188
Chris Wilson should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
I haven't seen an alloy monocoque F3000 for years. Thanks for the correction re the Woodcocks and the Woodhouses!. I just can't decide what to do with my Lola. It's stripped to bare carbon, gearbox rebuilt, all new suspension joints and NAS bolts, re Kephos coated. Koni dampers are fully rebuilt and dynoed. I was going to have it painted in its original Camel colours as per when Heinz-Harald Frentzen ran it, indeed he has been very helpful and sent me some period photos from his personal albums. The engine build cost a bomb as I had new Mugen Ti rods fitted and new Omega pistons made as the OE ones were no longer available. I have the files access to the Omegas so can produce more. It had a couple of liners due to external corrosion of a couple, and new pump internals, bearings, valve springs, some valves, etcetera. The heads were machined for the re-commissioned springs from Tomei in Japan, who have further developed the Mugen F3000 V8 to turn more revs. great people to deal with! All this came at a price though, and I am now fearful of running the brute! The tub is totally repair free, and has no issues at all we can see. My next door neighbour is an active carbon composites guy, ex McLaren, and he thinks it's a great tub. Should I sell it, or should I sit on it and hope a series comes along? Difficult call for me right now, I turn the engine weekly and all valve springs are all in a relaxed state. If it were not for the recession I'd have chanced my luck and done some test sessions at least, but right now another engine build would be a drama I could do without! If anyone is interested in the car I am happy to talk. I need to decide where I am going with this before the winter, and get it painted if I am going to have some fun with it. I drove it in the wet at Donington when I first bought it, and even with a patently tired engine she was a beast
Attached Thumbnails
donlola.jpg   1991.jpg  

Last edited by Chris Wilson; 19 Aug 2013 at 11:30.
Chris Wilson is offline  
__________________
Best regards,
Chris Wilson
Quote
Old 19 Aug 2013, 11:24 (Ref:3291675)   #19
Peter Mallett
The Honourable Mallett
20KPINAL
 
Peter Mallett's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
England
Here and there
Posts: 37,234
Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!Peter Mallett is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Off topic comment alert
I have to type this or my brain will explode!

Those F2 Ralts were great looking cars though and Roberto Moreno and Thackwell were certainly very good peddlers.

Thanks for reading, you've been a wonderful audience. Don't forget to try the veal and tip your waitress. We now return you to the topic


Yes, I recall that story too.
Peter Mallett is offline  
__________________
I've decided to stop reaching out to people. I'm just going to contact them instead.
Quote
Old 19 Aug 2013, 11:34 (Ref:3291677)   #20
PeterMorley
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
United Kingdom
Belgium
Posts: 952
PeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridPeterMorley should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris bailey View Post
Interesting thread!

We were having a discussion last week about which single-seater we'd like to have alongside the sports cars we run. F3000, from the early days, came out as top choice. However, when you go looking for one, they're like hen's teeth! We're only interested in the pre-carbon fibre era cars, so March or Lola chassis with a soft-tune DFV would be favourite. Anybody out there know where we might find one.......?
I might be able to help, just sent you an e-mail via the forum...
PeterMorley is offline  
Quote
Old 19 Aug 2013, 13:42 (Ref:3291724)   #21
davyboy
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,986
davyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Famedavyboy will be entering the Motorsport Hall of Fame
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Wilson View Post
I haven't seen an alloy monocoque F3000 for years. Thanks for the correction re the Woodcocks and the Woodhouses!. I just can't decide what to do with my Lola. It's stripped to bare carbon, gearbox rebuilt, all new suspension joints and NAS bolts, re Kephos coated. Koni dampers are fully rebuilt and dynoed. I was going to have it painted in its original Camel colours as per when Heinz-Harald Frentzen ran it, indeed he has been very helpful and sent me some period photos from his personal albums. The engine build cost a bomb as I had new Mugen Ti rods fitted and new Omega pistons made as the OE ones were no longer available. I have the files access to the Omegas so can produce more. It had a couple of liners due to external corrosion of a couple, and new pump internals, bearings, valve springs, some valves, etcetera. The heads were machined for the re-commissioned springs from Tomei in Japan, who have further developed the Mugen F3000 V8 to turn more revs. great people to deal with! All this came at a price though, and I am now fearful of running the brute! The tub is totally repair free, and has no issues at all we can see. My next door neighbour is an active carbon composites guy, ex McLaren, and he thinks it's a great tub. Should I sell it, or should I sit on it and hope a series comes along? Difficult call for me right now, I turn the engine weekly and all valve springs are all in a relaxed state. If it were not for the recession I'd have chanced my luck and done some test sessions at least, but right now another engine build would be a drama I could do without! If anyone is interested in the car I am happy to talk. I need to decide where I am going with this before the winter, and get it painted if I am going to have some fun with it. I drove it in the wet at Donington when I first bought it, and even with a patently tired engine she was a beast
Much as everyone would love to see and hear that Mugen again... if you do drive it, you've got to prepare yourself for rebuilding it and the eye watering costs involved. Another option would be to keep the Mugen exactly as you have it now [and refit it when you eventually sell the car]. In the meantime, buy and fit a soft-tuned Holden and use it in Formula Libre Ireland. There are several of your vintage being used [in that configuration] and they're reasonably competitive. The only downside is that the series doesn't visit the mainland... but the guys in Ireland are very friendly and welcoming and I'm sure you'd enjoy Mondello and Kirkistown.

Here's a taster from a couple of years back.
davyboy is offline  
Quote
Old 29 Aug 2013, 19:05 (Ref:3295838)   #22
chunterer
Race Official
Veteran
 
chunterer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location:
Down the end of my road
Posts: 15,702
chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!chunterer is going for a new world record!
Despite being a massive 3000 supporter and enthusiast I had never considered a classic series!

Great idea though Chris?

Some of you have hit the nail on tbe head re cost problems both back in the day and for any prospective owner today!

Engines are available but expensive to maintain. There's obviously loads of DFV/Y 's about to cater for the myriad old F1 and sportscar series. Suspect you coukd get a Judd relatively easily too. Mugens are the dear ones and were partly responsible for tbe costs increase in the late 80's as well, along with carbon parts.

As for chassis, March built loads before they fell out of favour. Where are all those 85/6/7 B's?. Some were just update kits but there must've been 50 odd chassis made at least.

Not sure about Ralts and early Lolas though? An ex works spare RB20 that Pavesi later ran has turned up in Italy, resplendent in original Bridgestone colours. Now that woukd be a great cR for such a series particularly if Mike Thackwell or John Nielsen could be tempted to drive it!
chunterer is offline  
__________________
"Double Kidney Guv'nah?"
"No thanks George they're still wavin a white flag!"
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Oulton 750MC is earlier! Peter Harding Marshals Forum 1 6 Sep 2011 12:33
Older F3000 cars...any series out there? drgoodwrench Club Level Single Seaters 14 22 Oct 2005 21:27
GP 2 cars are approximately 3 secs faster than the F3000 cars Frank_White National & International Single Seaters 18 5 Nov 2004 23:06
Silly Season's Getting Earlier wodonnell Formula One 2 17 Oct 2000 09:03
F3000 British series jvilleneuve2000 Trackside 4 7 Sep 2000 10:53


All times are GMT. The time now is 15:46.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.