Toronto, Vancouver Promoter Wants Government Subsidy

[Dov]

From Speedtv.com... http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto...ar/9028/?from=[HOME]

Toronto, Vancouver Promoter Wants Government Subsidy

Written by: RACER staff
Toronto, Ontario – 11/28/2003

Bob Singleton, the general manager of the Toronto Indy and Vancouver Indy Champ Car street races, has launched a public push for his events to get government funding along the lines of the recently announced rescue package that restored the Canadian GP to the 2004 F1 schedule.

"The same tobacco legislation at the center of the Montreal F1 problems also affects Toronto and Vancouver," Singleton told the Toronto Sun . "I'm happy that the federal government saw fit to take a sponsorship position with the Canadian Grand Prix in Montreal, but we (Toronto and Vancouver) have been fighting to find sponsorship dollars, too."

F1 officials canceled the Canadian Grand Prix last year after the country's prohibition against tobacco sponsorships pf sports was adopted, but the cancellation was rescinded after the race promoter put together a compensation package for the F1 teams to make up for the revenue lost. The fund was paid for by the promoter in conjunction with the Canadian and Quebec provincial governments.

Canada's Champ Car races also have been critically affected by the loss of Player’s sponsorship, after the company was was forced to abandon all of its motorsports sponsorships, which including title sponsorship of the Forsythe Racing team of Paul Tracy and Patrick Carpentier

[GP Racer]

You can't blame him for trying to get the same deal as F1, but I'm not sure they'll wield the same power as the Canadian GP has.

I'm afraid the financial difficulties and the somewhat cloudy future of CART may make it look like a bad investment on the governments part.

Hopefully I'm wrong...

[Jay]

hmmm...they haven't had tobacco sponsorship for a few years now, so you'd think if this was a real problem, they'd have asked for the subsidies then...

Also, the subsidy the Canadian Govt is giving the F1 race is only for one (or two at most) years until the EU and US's tobacco laws are the same as Canada's.... also, the Canadian GP brings so much money into the country - and for the govt in tax revenues that it's a good investment to keep (it's worth it for the govt to pay $5 million to continue getting $20 million).

My feeling is that this is just the Molson Indy races seeing the Canadian GP getting some money and saying - "What about us?". It's been shown that tobacco sponsorship is not critical to the event in the past few years, so if they are crying now, it's probably not because of tobacco laws.

That said, they are really struggling with early ticket sales - as they did last year... I don't mean that they won't sell most of the tickets and not have another packed house, I mean that the ticket renewals and sales up to the month before the race were very poor last year, and I bet they are worse this year... This is key revenue that they need to setup their operation....so it must hurt. But, asking the Canadian Gov't for a handout does not seem on. Perhaps they should consider scaling down the event as CART will have to with the series next year...

[Tony F.P.]

Originally posted by GP Racer
You can't blame him for trying to get the same deal as F1, but I'm not sure they'll wield the same power as the Canadian GP has.

I'm afraid the financial difficulties and the somewhat cloudy future of CART may make it look like a bad investment on the governments part.

Hopefully I'm wrong...

PM in Waiting Paul Martin says He Will Take A look at it for sure, Cart Racing is about to make a Big comeback.
They are not certain if the Canadian GP Will go ahead, it all depends on Ticket sales, Many say it's not good since the departure of Villeneuve.

[Jay]

I'd say it's the opposite actually... the Canadian GP will go ahead (might have a bit less attendance this year) regardless of ticket sales, but Villeneuve or not, it's pretty much guaranteed to be the biggest (dollar and publicity-wise) annual event in Canada.

All three Molson Indy's are in limbo pending what happens to CART. I think open-wheel racing in North America will make a comeback, but it's not done going down yet... CART will have to die before it will be rebourn.

[Liz]

Ticket prices for the Montreal GP will be up 20% at least according to the National Post of Friday. This in spite of the fact (conveniently hidden behind Norman Legault's back) that the subsidies to the tobacco sponsored teams is no longer necessary due to France being one of the Non-Tobacco ad alottment teams under the Concorde and now out of the running; AND the subsidy to ALL teams for running an 18th race no longer applies. The big noise about Labatts as sponsor amounts to $5 million only. And we still have an uncompetitive grid with a guaranteed win by You Know Who.

But I'm not surprised that CART promoters jumped on the gravy train to the Big Rock Candy Mountain; this is the only thing that one could have expected. If one guy gets a handout, all the others demand them too. And of course the people of Newfoundland and Alberta will be delighted to pay to hold a race in Toronto! Everyone loves Toronto. (NOT).

[Jay]

Completely unrelated to this: I'm going to see how much everyone in Ottawa loves Toronto, when I put on my Leaf's jersey (the old-style one) and head to the Corel Centre for Tonight's Sens-Leafs game. I'll see how much of that love I can feel !

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by Tony F.P.
PM in Waiting Paul Martin says He Will Take A look at it for sure, Cart Racing is about to make a Big comeback.
They are not certain if the Canadian GP Will go ahead, it all depends on Ticket sales, Many say it's not good since the departure of Villeneuve.

CART is about to make a big comeback? We must be looking at different crystal balls! But I do hope your's is right!

The Canadian GP is a sure bet to go on, despite the increased price for a ticket, and despite the fact that JV won't be around(don't get me started on him!) Canadian race fan's won't let there GP die!

[Dov]

Originally posted by Jay
Completely unrelated to this: I'm going to see how much everyone in Ottawa loves Toronto, when I put on my Leaf's jersey (the old-style one) and head to the Corel Centre for Tonight's Sens-Leafs game. I'll see how much of that love I can feel !

.....and when I watch the Leafs/Senators game tonight on CBC, I'll put on my Senators jersey....Oh That's Right, I don't own a Senators jersey.........

[Omega99]

Originally posted by Liz
And of course the people of Newfoundland and Alberta will be delighted to pay to hold a race in Toronto!

I've lived in Alberta my whole life and that sounds about right! Personally, I don't mind seeing my money go where it's needed, wherever that may be. However, the Molson Indy's are already profitable and the handout would go to the promotter, Molson, who would just pocket the cash and add it to their profit margin. The Montreal GP is a different situation, where the event would not happen at all if the government didn't step in and help out, and unless it comes down to that for the CART events, the government should (and almost certainly will) hold onto their money. Just think, it's possible we could have the Government of Canada presents the Bridestone Champ Car World Series Powered by Ford! IMO, tax dollars well spent. But my opinion only counts for one...

[macdaddy]

The Canadian GP will take a lickin' without a Canadian driver.

[Snrub]

The Montreal GP doesn't deserve gov't money regardless of any possible reason.

Now let's be realistic, how much money does Newfoundland contribute towards such subsidization? Wonder why they only have to work for 3 months before getting EI? (how long is the summer? ...oh...)

[Liz]

I'm watching the Leafs/Ottawa game but I haven't seen Jay yet. I hope they haven't arrested him for treason or anything!

[Tony F.P.]

Originally posted by Snrub
The Montreal GP doesn't deserve gov't money regardless of any possible reason.

Now let's be realistic, how much money does Newfoundland contribute towards such subsidization? Wonder why they only have to work for 3 months before getting EI? (how long is the summer? ...oh...)

Listen to me (edit)
one thing i do Know You know nothing about Newfoundland and Labrador. Canada's secound Bigest oil producer next to alberta is Newfoundland, and guest what 90% of the revenues going to Ottawa. Western Labrador Has the Bigest iron ore mines in the whole world,No Benifits to the province except a few jobs.Churchill falls,Labrador,Bigest Hydro project in the world when build in the 1960's No benifits for the Province except a few Jobs. Newfoundland and Labrador Gave Ottawa the Voisey Bay , one of the Bigest Nickel Discovery's in the world. Ottawa Gave away all the Fish stocks to forign Nations for deals in central Canada, All destroyed. (two edits in one post, this one a bit more severe) Maybe you should Visit Nefoundland and Labrador, Canada's Fastest Growing Economy.Thank God we stil have some of the finest Salmon Sport Fishing in the world left.

[Dov]

Originally posted by Liz
I'm watching the Leafs/Ottawa game but I haven't seen Jay yet. I hope they haven't arrested him for treason or anything!

I thought Jay was in net for the Leafs tonight!

[macdaddy]

Tony...
I believe that you may have taken that post out of context.
But that's not any excuse for the reply.
Welcome to the ChampCar part of the forum, but no more of that.

[Jay]

Bit of a dull game... and I think there were more Leaf fans there than Senators fans - if the crowd had been more lively I would have thought I was in the ACC.

[indycool]

The promoter at Surfers gets a Queensland government subsidy for that event. It appears that CART's Korean event will get a government subsidy of some kind. The Mexican state of Nuevo Leon has a piece of CART's Monterrey race. Since Mexico City is run on public property, no doubt there's some kind of deal there, particularly with Forsythe putting $30 million into the track.

Street races must have local government cooperation, but they're not subsidized and often the promoter pays. Hence, the argument over a bill from the City of Miami to the promoters for $30,000 in post-race cleanup costs.

Chris Economaki's column in last week's National Speed Sport News had a blurb that Melbourne's F1 race lost $5.4 million, loses money every year and that an Australian taxpayer group is questioning its government subsidy.

Not saying what Canada or anyone else should or shouldn't do. But the Canadian GP situation sure isn't the first of its kind.

[MolsonBoy]

hmmm...they haven't had tobacco sponsorship for a few years now, so you'd think if this was a real problem, they'd have asked for the subsidies then...

Jay, Players had been a major sponsor for the Molson Indys. That sponsorship ended this October with the new tobacco laws. The proof is the amount of signage at both the Toronto and Vancouver events this year.

And it is a problem. I don't know about 2003 but last year (02) both Toronto and Vancouver lost money to the tune of approx. 2 mil in total. This year there were some cut backs that I noticed at the Vancouver event. There was also a reorganization at Molson Sports and Entertainment which saw the departure of Stuart Ballentyne (General Manager of the Vancouver race and just under Bob Singleton in the Molson pecking order). So the lost of Players means Molson is hunting for a new sponsor to replace Players.

As noted in eariler posts CART uncertain future may deter many sponsors from stepping up. Both teams and promoters are suffering because of this.

[Snrub]

No need to get mad Tony, but let's be realistic. My EI jab was a bit mean, but it's not entirely untrue either. Why does some in Ontario have to work for 4 months to get EI? Anyway, my point was more about overall contribution.
"Working-age families in Newfoundland and Labrador received $7,500 on average in government transfer payments in 2000. These payments together accounted for $14.30 of every $100 in family income before-tax in Newfoundland, the highest proportion in the country."
"On average, such families in Ontario and Alberta received the lowest government transfer payments in 2000, both in terms of amounts and as a proportion of family income. In both provinces, government transfers accounted for less than $5 of every $100 in family income. Amounts received were under $3,400."
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/cens.../inc/provs.cfm

We're getting a bit off topic. The point is that subsidizing races is stupid.

[Fogelhund]

I don't really believe that races should be subsidized, beyond a one time special case such as the F1 race.

[GP Racer]

Originally posted by macdaddy
The Canadian GP will take a lickin' without a Canadian driver.

The USGP at Indy is one of the best attended F1 races of the year, and there hasn't been an American driver in that series since...

Well, let's not go there!

[Jay]

Originally posted by MolsonBoy
Jay, Players had been a major sponsor for the Molson Indys. That sponsorship ended this October with the new tobacco laws. The proof is the amount of signage at both the Toronto and Vancouver events this year.

Apologies, checking my photos, there were a few Player's signs in Toronto this year - though not many, and significantly less than there was in the past. It certainly wasn't significant... That said, I don't think there was any tobacco signage in Montreal...at least not viewable to the public.

It's not the only problem these races are facing though... sagging sponsorship on all fronts, with CART being less marketable, less of a guaranteed TV audience... and throw in sagging ticket sales. The grandstands have gotten significantly smaller in the last few years in Toronto (like 50% smaller) - and I know Toronto was in a pretty desperate situation ticket sales-wise this year until the last minute. To be honest, I think they just made the grandstands smaller and more people bought GA tickets... at least I assume more people bought GA tickets.... the crowds at the concessions and in the Trade Centre seemed significantly smaller this year.

On the Canadian GP suffering without Villeneuve...there was quite a period when it was quite successful without a Villeneuve to go for, so I don't see why it won't be again... besides, anyone that's ever been to the race knows that Villeneuve is not the only reason the locals go.

[Liz]

The paddock was a lot emptier at Toronto this year, I noticed that all the days but Sunday. And I know the signage was awy down because I was taking photos for the job I used to have.

And if anyone is surprised at "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs" well this is the 88th year since the Bolsevik Revolution and y'all ought to have figured out how that always ends up by now. Millions of needs and no ability.