THE ALL IN ONE UNIFICATION THREAD

[Down F0rce]

I wonder what, if anything, will come of these meetings?

[climb]

After what happened thios winter is there really any room for concrete negociations?

[climb]

Robin Miller, since when is he fair with IRL?

[rush1]

It looks as though Penske is the intermediary on this one. Its too bad the children can't sit around and hash it out but maybe feelings are still hurt.

[jhansen]

I don't find either series to be all that stable. But the IRL does at least appear more stable on the surface. OWRS/CART has done well with fan attendance and I believe the IRL edges out with ratings and a better TV package. Each series has quality cars, teams, drivers and venues. It’s all rather subjective to decide who has the edge in those segments.

Financially, both suck quite frankly. It's not hard to see that OWRS/CART does well just to keep its head above water. And the IRL, well who knows? It's very difficult to know what their bottom line is when they have TG and family shelling out dollars, and welfare to work engine deals. Take that away and maybe the IRL would sink like a stone.

Neither series brings anything all that attractive to each other. The only thing they bring to the table is that a unified series would be stronger than what each has on their own. By combining their strengths they would be better placed to take on their weaknesses. The combined product is what they bring to the table. It's that simple.

Furthermore, the two series are only dividing the market for open wheel racing. NASCAR has one basic product line while open wheel has a fortitude of fractures. What's the fan to identify with? Pull together, head hunt some marketing people and get the ball rolling.

Side note: I wish people would quit taking pot shots at Roger Penske just because he has a fiduciary stake in this. Guess what, he runs a business. If he can better open wheel racing and make a dollar along the way what do you care?

[GP Racer]

So it seems that everyone is for unification, and one series, as long as it looks exactly like CART, right?

Let's see, an eight man Board of Directors, an equal mix of ovals/street/road courses, more international races, which would give little opportunity to American drivers, again. It all sounds pretty familiar doesn't it?

Tell me, why would any IRL fan want to see his series destroyed, and made into a CART-like clone?

[jhansen]

Well don't lump me into whatever group you're talking to. I am for one series, but I would want it to only run North American tracks. Two in Mexico, 15 in the states, and three in Canada. Something like that. I'm for the mix of ovals and street/road courses, but more because I like variety. As for orginization and structure, I haven't really thought about it. Either one person screws up, or does good, or the board screws up, or does it right. Not sure if it makes any difference. One thing I am certain of though, neither series is particularly healthy. If you have an argument against that statement, I would like to hear it.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by Kicking-back
Hear, hear.

Kooombuya, Kooombuya...


"OH NO, we are doomed."

"Doomed."
"Doomed."

[marcus]

I dont want a unified series to be exactly what CART was , not sure what it is I want it to be either.

basically I would like them to either get together and work something out or stay well away from each other and let what happens happens.

[Bob Riebe]

I would love for them to start at Rafaela in Argentina, in Feb., Move up to Jacarepagua in Brazil, then up to either a race in Mexico or Phoenix and go on to a total of approx. 15 races, with 30 percent being road races, no street course dung.
Bob

[GP Racer]

GP Racer , while you are entitled to your opinions be they wrong or right others may see that post as a flame bait , therefore I have edited it , maybe you could re word it a little better and try again

[mountainstar]

Originally posted by Bob Riebe
I would love for them to start at Rafaela in Argentina, in Feb., Move up to Jacarepagua in Brazil, etc.

Bob, we can always count on you to toss one in from left field.

[gttouring]

Althouhg largely ignored in this forum, an IRL CCWS unification isn't about who has rights to this or that race, who has better cars, and racing because things have come full circle and the two series are on par IMO with talent and cars and good races, reunification is for the sport, the open wheel racing which stood rival to F1 as some of the best racing on the planet, it was so regarded that Mansell after winning F1 title went to CART to win that one as well.
this is why unification is needed, to elevate the new world and the Open wheel racing existing here the storied indy legends,, the champcar battles, the intense racing through many city streets and the great north american roadcourses from mexico to canada maybe even the south american ones, juumping to japan and australia and racing ballsout in an oval from an intense mile to the superfast 500 milers superspeedway races where only the brave hold on and win the canyon racing adn airstrip tearing backfire spouting raccing found nowhere on the planet and now found splintered between egos and greed.
Unification is good.
CCWS brings a whole wealth of teams talent and LOVE of OPEN WHEEL to the game, IRL has the ex-CART megateams and manufacturers who really love CART racing but needed INDY 500, the 2 will be much mightier as 1. the two will flounder with half knowns and psuedo talented fields save 10 or so drivers... together they have 20+ drivers of global calibre not to mention racing organizations. To not have conflicting schedules and a single loving large fanbase ($$$)
and something for the Frances to worry about maybe- as once before.
Unification is all these things and really what is there to argue about thinking of this and the benefits it can give not this series or that series, but real racing, open wheel racing
Championship Indycars the way we all knew them growing up.
can you argue with that?

[Bob Riebe]

"I fell in to a burning ring of fire, I went down, down, down and the flames grew higher; and it burns, burns, burns that ring of fire, that ring of fire..."

[marcus]

Oh good riddles ??????


Im sure there is a song thread in Parc ferme waiting for you Bob

[gttouring]

no doom and gloom...USAC will end up buying the rights to both series and run it as it was in the 60s
Nyah Nyah

[Purist]

I would say we should have the three races outside of North America; the oval at Rio, Motegi, and Surfers Paradise. We need the events that are already well supported or would be well supported, and these three fit that, and have been a part of open wheel. Street courses may annoy some, but they bring the races to te the population centers, oftentimes draw significant crowds, and can actually provide interesting competition. Toront, St. Petersbug, and Cleveland at least offer a relatively high number of overtaking maneuvers, and these courses by natere, meaning low downforce, also allow the cars to stick close together. This in general allows for more opportunities to overtake.

Somvetimes I'd like to tell the bigwigs "Get over yourselves and grow up." Just needed to vent a little there.

[zerO]

Must read = http://www.timedispatch.com/servlet/...=1045855934848

Comments are welcome...

zerO

[macdaddy]

Rio should only be added if the gate crowds are there.
And what about Korea? We'll find out about crowds soon enough.
Japan and Germany offer manufacturer support. That's quite important, goes without saying.

[macdaddy]

Try reposting the link.

[zerO]

http://www.timedispatch.com/servlet/...76261440&path=!sports!auto&s=1045855934848

ok, that's the link - have no clue why it doesn't work here... please enter it manually and read the article...

zerO

[macdaddy]

Nope. Try a cut-and-paste of pertinent paragraphs, giving credit where due?

(Edit was for typo.)

[zerO]

Because of the silly exclamation marks it doesn't want to go through... try manually = http://www. timedispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRID_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031776261440&path=!sports!aut o&s=1045855934848

zerO

[macdaddy]

Rename the thread as "Confused Link" ?

[zerO]

OK, since the link doesn't want to work here's the reprint - it's an article about the lack of American drivers in OW racing in USA - from a Richmond,VA paper "Times Dispatch" - enjoy ?!


In its first trip to Richmond International Raceway, the all-American spirit of the Indy Racing League was all the rage.

The pole position was claimed by a Vail, Colo., native who rose through the country's minor-league Indy-car ranks. The inaugural race was won by his brother, Buddy, a former Indianapolis 500 winner. The other podium finishers represented the present (Al Unser Jr.) and potential future (Sam Hornish Jr.) for famous names in U.S. Indy-car racing.

Three years later, the IRL has returned to Richmond with a distinctly foreign flavor. Jaques and Buddy Lazier are out of full-time work, a New Zealander is the defending champion of the series and the race, and more than half the field hails from outside the United States.

In its quest to build a lineup of star power to match NASCAR's exclusively American Nextel Cup celebrity circuit, is the IRL headed for an internationally tinged identity crisis?

According to at least two of its most renowned U.S. figures, the series might be returning to its roots by lightening its U.S. allegiances.

"Open wheel racing is international, let's face it," Michael Andretti said. "We want the best guys in the world. It's personalities, not nationalities, that make this. What the IRL needs to do is not focus on Americans. They need to focus on the personalities of these guys. Americans will grab a hold of the personality, and it doesn't matter what the nationality is."

In this year's RIR event, there will be nine U.S. drivers among 22 starters, down from 16 in each of the first two races at RIR.

The dwindling number of Americans has been accompanied by a decline in U.S. winners. Seven of 16 races last year were won by U.S.-born drivers, and Buddy Rice's victory last month at the Brickyard was the first in the Indy 500 by an American since Eddie Cheever Jr. in 1998.

Andretti believes too much U.S.-centric hype resulted from Rice's triumph.

"We do need to have good Americans in the series, and we do in Buddy Rice and Sam Hornish," said Andretti, who jokingly refers to Bryan Herta as the "token American" of his four-car team. "I don't care if Bryan is American or not. That didn't influence our decision to have him. I don't want to be racing the best Americans, I want to be racing the best people in the world."

Bobby Rahal subscribes to the same philosophy. Rahal, the 1986 winner at Indy, raced for 28 years before retiring in 1998 to become a full-time team owner, competing against worldly competition including Emerson Fittipaldi and Nigel Mansell.

"Beating the guys from Europe and Brazil was tremendous," Rahal said. "It gave a relevance to what I did. It's like winning an NCAA track meet vs. the Olympics. It's hard to win against college athletes but much tougher to beat the entire world."
Rather than just relying on homegrown talent, Rahal believes the IRL needs greater corporate support to turn its stars into household names. R.J. Reynolds poured millions into NASCAR's premier series over three decades to promote its Winston brand by turning drivers into spokesmen.

In its eight-year existence, the IRL never has enjoyed a deep-pocketed title sponsor such as RJR and has no drivers who enjoy the same popularity of NASCAR superstars such as Dale Earnhardt Jr. and Jeff Gordon.

"The biggest thing the IRL needs is a series sponsor," Rahal said. "The cubic dollars invested in NASCAR over the years can't be overstated. They need a sponsor that will market them in a public forum.

"Many of the sponsors traditionally in open wheel have been business to business. We need the consumer-oriented sponsor to take drivers and create heroes and individuals that the public identifies with their companies. You need to have the kind of sponsors that put Terry Labonte on a box of Corn Flakes. That's what's going to help us."

Everyone agrees a unified series also would be a good start. TV ratings have declined precipitously since Indy-car was split into two series in 1996.

"All it became then was politics," Andretti said. "It had nothing to do with the drivers. It was all controversy, and the whole focus came off of what it's all about."

As CART, which now is called the Champ Car World Series, and the IRL warred, sponsorship dried up, leading to diminished opportunities for Americans. Gordon, Tony Stewart and Ryan Newman are among the U.S. drivers who defected to NASCAR after beginning their careers in open wheel.

Ohio native Sarah Fisher has been named the series' most popular driver for three consecutive years, but this year she has run only the Indy 500 because of a lack of sponsorship.

Rice and Alex Barron, a Menifee, Calif., native, have bounced between full-time rides despite winning pedigrees in Indy-car ladder series.

"It's tough for all American kids trying to break into this now," Rice said. "It's just timing, and everything has to be right to work out."

Texas native Greg Ray, an ex-series champion, lays some of the blame on a lack of marketing.

"When the IRL first started, it seemed to be all about the teams," Ray said. "Everybody will tell you NASCAR is about the teams, but they really focus on promoting the drivers. We just haven't found that medium yet on how to do that."
The IRL has shifted a heavier emphasis to selling its drivers the past two years with the goal of highlighting off-track personalities. The annual media guide is crammed with photos of drivers displaying a "casual" side - striking poses while playing pool, water-skiing and mountain biking.

It's also filled with the bios of several multilingual drivers.

"We have a uniquely American sport," said Ken Ungar, the IRL's VP for business affairs. "But we don't think it's the prime factor in terms of star building and driver development. We believe race fans in this country love to see the best compete. We are a melting pot."

There's a hidden reason why I've posted it - will touch on that when some replies come in ?!

zerO