1970's & 80's Super Saloons & Special Saloons (merged)

[Gerry Taylor]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Cool, the first time I went was in 2003, twice, and haven't been since!!

Hi Chunterer, you might like this picture then. Late 1960's. Mallory Park. Note the Grandstand opposite, which we could have done with on Bank Holiday Monday eh?
This was actually 1967 and I cannot remember who any of the drivers were, but I am in the purple car with the yellow bonnet on the inside. That may have been Terry McNally alongside. Sorry about poor quality, but well before digital camera's.

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by DanMinton

Any info on the blue 'Kitten' behind the Escort?

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Moosehead

Any info on the blue 'Kitten' behind the Escort?

That's the Marshall & Frazer Kitten, which was one of the stars of Special Saloons in the latter days of the series. Ginger Marshall and his brother David prepared the car and Ginger drove it (he's now doing Radicals i think?)

Had a 1 litre Cosworth engine I think, an extremely good piece of race car engineering.

First time I saw it was at Thruxton in 1984 at the Easter Monday F2/BTCC meeting when I was a lad. It came hurtling up the hill towards the chicane.... I couldn't believe my eyes!

Ginger, Doc Enderby and Pat Mannion had some massive scraps!

That's another car still in original hands and last time I heard still in original condition, and I would imagine Andy97 and the reunion organisers are very keen on encouraging it out next year if at all possible,

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by 911thillclimber

Can you please identify the drivers of the two Skodas in the second and other pics?
One of them might be the root of my car.
Graham.

One of them must be Tony Dickinson's, the other I am not so sure about!!!

[Andy Clegg]

Hi, I took this photo at Brands Hatch in the 80's.
Andy

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

That's the Marshall & Frazer Kitten, which was one of the stars of Special Saloons in the latter days of the series. Ginger Marshall and his brother David prepared the car and Ginger drove it (he's now doing Radicals i think?)

Had a 1 litre Cosworth engine I think, an extremely good piece of race car engineering.

First time I saw it was at Thruxton in 1984 at the Easter Monday F2/BTCC meeting when I was a lad. It came hurtling up the hill towards the chicane.... I couldn't believe my eyes!

Ginger, Doc Enderby and Pat Mannion had some massive scraps!

That's another car still in original hands and last time I heard still in original condition, and I would imagine Andy97 and the reunion organisers are very keen on encouraging it out next year if at all possible,

From what I remember, the engine was a very special piece of engineering. I think it was Imp based, but used a specially cast (an made by/for Marshall-Frazer) alloy block that then mated with a Mini transmission. (But this is based on a conversation I had with Ginger Marshall in 1982/1983, my memory has led me astray on many similar subjects since then...)

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

From what I remember, the engine was a very special piece of engineering. I think it was Imp based, but used a specially cast (an made by/for Marshall-Frazer) alloy block that then mated with a Mini transmission. (But this is based on a conversation I had with Ginger Marshall in 1982/1983, my memory has led me astray on many similar subjects since then...)

Yes I think it was something like that

Was it the engine that started out in their Mini Traveller but was continually developed?

IIRC Brian was never able to get that chassis to go as well as they would like with the engine/transmission so the Kitten idea came up because it offered better installation space and the like?

[Spen Again]

Great pictures and info there, thanks guys. Could have guessed that mk3 Escort in the Thruxton shot was a Gartrac creation, looks fresh off a Lyden Rallycross meet. In the Brands shots, the black Firenza, is that the 4litre straight-six engined car that was out at Mallory, painted yellow? Epic understeer on that in the Druids shot, well soft settings :-)

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by Spen Again

Great pictures and info there, thanks guys. Could have guessed that mk3 Escort in the Thruxton shot was a Gartrac creation, looks fresh off a Lyden Rallycross meet. In the Brands shots, the black Firenza, is that the 4litre straight-six engined car that was out at Mallory, painted yellow? Epic understeer on that in the Druids shot, well soft settings :-)

Might be Tony Davies Transpeed car in 'Alan Herschner' livery?

I always remember that car in pale blue but it must have had a different livery before that.

[Andy Clegg]

Would the other Skoda be Jim Price?
Andy

[Moosehead]

Originally Posted by chunterer

That's the Marshall & Frazer Kitten, which was one of the stars of Special Saloons in the latter days of the series. Ginger Marshall and his brother David prepared the car and Ginger drove it (he's now doing Radicals i think?)

Ahh, ok. Wasn't the answer I was hoping for but thanks anyway. Very informative answer.

[VIVA GT]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Yes I think it was something like that

Was it the engine that started out in their Mini Traveller but was continually developed?
IIRC Brian was never able to get that chassis to go as well as they would like with the engine/transmission so the Kitten idea came up because it offered better installation space and the like?

I'm pretty sure that The Kitten sis 'evolve' out of the Traveller racer yes...

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by VIVA GT

I'm pretty sure that The Kitten sis 'evolve' out of the Traveller racer yes...

Evolve is exactly the right word, thanks for that one

I'll see if I can dig out my old notes from a kind of interview I did with David Marshall which should add a bit more flesh on the bones for us.

[Clive Brown]

The second Skoda in the first of the two Skoda pics, and the Skoda in the second pic, is Tony Dickinson's third Skoda, Hart 420R powered and built on Lola T490/HU6 chassis, which Alan Humberstone trashed at Lydden Hill and had rebuilt on T492 chassis HU....

[Clive Brown]

Originally Posted by chunterer

Might be Tony Davies Transpeed car in 'Alan Herschner' livery?

I always remember that car in pale blue but it must have had a different livery before that.

The car was originally in very dark blue. It also appeared in green (I think for the Alan Hirschner (boo! hiss!) rôle), and later on in a mid/light blue livery.

[911thillclimber]

Good to 'see' you back on here Clive!
The Dickinson skoda is the root of the car i have.
Toying with getting a Karmann Ghia body for the Lola, moulds still exist.
Couldn't paint it bloody pink mind!

[Clive Brown]

Yep, I'm back! The KG bodywork shouldn't be too hard to fit, but you would probably need to slightly extend the rear wheel arches in a similar manner to the extensions on your current Lola body. The Demon Doctor's KG was slab sided (I should know, I designed the body work from scratch!) and used 8" front and 10" rear rims as a 1 litre with Imp power or as a 1300 with either 1120 Imp or 1300 BDA, but with bigger rear rims with the 1700 BDA, with wheel arch extensions in the same style as per your current car.

[Clive Brown]

Since my return from my 'sabbatical', I've been catching up on what has passed in my absence.To take things post-by-post:

#457: Yep, that's me in the red jacket.

#464: The 1930cc stretched FVC powered car came from Malcolm Johnstone. It was the car formerly run by Tony Dickinson with a 1300BDA. It was at least part-exchanged for the 1976 Imp Special Saloon, which Malcolm Johnstone then ran through the 1977 season, and then sold to Paul Heywood-Halfpenny. Towards the end of the 1977 season, George sold the Stiletto back to MJ, who managed to have a big accident with it in 1978- not difficult with 270bhp in a 7' wheelbase. I don't know what happened to it thereafter, nor what happened to the '76 car after PHH.

#467: I have to conclude that there must have been at least four pukka Bevan Gp. 2 cars, rather than three. The first car was the triple championship winner, sold to Les Nash for the 1973 season. Then came another car, which I believe is shown in posts #470 and 472. I believe this was raced by Ray Calcutt at the 1972 Grand Prix support race at Brands. It might have been this latter car which was sold to Germany. George's principal German customer was one Hans Sauer, who was I believe at one time the German Abarth importer. I don't know what happened to the Les Nash car post-1973. What I will call for now the third car was the twin headlight car, written off at Thruxton in 1973 (at the Easter meeting?). The salvageable bits were transferred to the fourth car, which was, fortuitously, already under construction when the third car was destroyed. I don't know what happened to this fourth car, although I know George did have a Finnish customer, a rallycrossser called Jussi Kynsiletho, or something like that.

On top of this there were at least two Bevanised Gp 2 Imps, which were existing cars over which George's magic wand was passed. One was the ex-Andy Holloway black Gp. 2 Imp, which was commissioned by Hans Sauer, and exported using the registration documents from my own first road Imp, EFX 102D. IIRC, the second was built on Ivor Goodwin's Gp. 2 car; I don't know who had that.

#468 The 1975 club Imp was I think a new build, and not a reworked Gp. 2 car. Rob Mason did the bodywork on this car, but Bill McGovern drove it. It was unsuccessful- too heavy, and George stayed faithful to Dunlop tyres, which were by then uncompetitive against the Firestones which the quicker club Imps used.

#476 The car in the foreground is the Les Nash car, therefore the shot dates from 1973. In the background George Bevan, his son Peter, and I think George's wife Doris are standing by the Bevan car. I think the guy with shades, sideburns and 'tache in the foreground may be Les's brother, Colin; that's likely to be Les in the car. Incidentally, the door isn't stripped out because it wasn't permitted in Gp.2; the only major trim bits missing would have been the carpets and I believe the rear seats.

So if there were four Gp.2 cars, seemingly the only one whose career can be recorded beyond all reasonable doubt is the one that was written off.... over to you, historians!

[Bevan IMP]

Hi Clive,

I cant believe you were banned...............

The 75 Car went to Germany, I found pictures of it in A Mag.


In case you haven't seen it, here is our latest creation........


Jonathan

[Clive Brown]

Your posting of the German track test has jogged my memory of the fate of the 1975 car. From the signwriting on the front, it looks like it, too, went to Hans Sauer. As I wrote earlier, it wasn't ever a Group 2 car, so we still have three of those subsequent history seems uncertain....

[historic racer]

Hi Clive welcome back , no more telling it as it really was ,put on the rose tinted as worn by most on here. ( GP 2 mini 72 - 73 and friend of the Doc's )

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by historic racer

Hi Clive welcome back , no more telling it as it really was ,put on the rose tinted as worn by most on here. ( GP 2 mini 72 - 73 and friend of the Doc's )

On the contrary, we welcome anecdotes and stories from the past from people who were there at the time, whether it's Clive or anyone else.

[historic racer]

Originally Posted by chunterer

On the contrary, we welcome anecdotes and stories from the past from people who were there at the time, whether it's Clive or anyone else.

Then why was he banned ? seem to remember him making comments about Llanfranchi which got him a warning and it went from there.

[ant]

Originally Posted by COLIN STUBBS

!

Car in the far right of this photo , is that colin hawkers DFVW? i thought it was white and blue ? did it have a repaint or is this a different car ?

anyone got any more pics or info on the whereabouts of this car now ?

cheers guys

[chunterer]

Originally Posted by ant

Car in the far right of this photo , is that colin hawkers DFVW? i thought it was white and blue ? did it have a repaint or is this a different car ?

anyone got any more pics or info on the whereabouts of this car now ?

cheers guys

Yes it is that car, but I think someone mentioned that it was orignally a Lola/De Cadenet Group 6 chassis and was converted back to that spec in recent years?