Is this now a dying championship? - Page 3

Bluewolf · 23 Jul 2006, 16:29 (Ref:1662807)

Wow -- this is definitely not looking good -- Does anyone know if Rahal is going to field more than one car next year???

luke · 23 Jul 2006, 19:54 (Ref:1662888)

Latest news is Dario and Bryan will be in ALMS next year.

mountainstar · 24 Jul 2006, 05:25 (Ref:1663111)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluewolf

Wow -- this is definitely not looking good -- Does anyone know if Rahal is going to field more than one car next year???

Right now he was hinting at one car(ethanol) in the irl and argent going to champcar with rahal.

D&R will probably be done for the count anytime soon and I can't see panther clinging to the cliff for much longer.

Looks like more auctions for key liquidators this year.

D.R.T. · 24 Jul 2006, 13:19 (Ref:1663377)

Surely TG will kick the tin to ensure those teams remain.

Tim Northcutt · 24 Jul 2006, 13:30 (Ref:1663385)

With D&R's news we have 17

If Panther can't get a sponsor

Rahal runs 1 car instead of 3, and

AGR runs 3 instead of 4 cars (which is possible)

That would be 13 cars from this year's participants.

and that doesn't include the "Penske & Ganassi being 50/50" scenario.

That potential picture is quite bleak

drewdawg727 · 24 Jul 2006, 14:58 (Ref:1663420)

Well i have been gone for two months, so i of course have missed a lot.
The one thing that i notice is that NO DISCUSSION AT ALL of this happens in the commentation of a race. I just watched seven races over the past few days (Indy, Watkins Glen, Texas, Richmond, Kansas, Nashville, and Milwaukee) and each race was equally exciting.

I did notice the amount of cars decreasing in each race, but thought nothing of it. But now that i read this thread it seems like IRL really is falling into quicksand with no way of rescue. It fooled me a little because each race indeed was exciting, especially in Milwaukee where the Penske/Ganassi battle finally was put aside for one race.

But getting back to the topic of discussion, first of all i think we all need to stop pointing blame at one series or another. I think almost all of us agree that there needs to be a merger, so the one thing we should not be doing is complaining. There is nothing that a little online message board can do to help along the process.

And repeating what i said earlier in this post, i don't hear anything about merger talk at all on the commentation. Does anyone know why there is no update about this at all?

And by the way - it is good to be back

Bluewolf · 24 Jul 2006, 18:09 (Ref:1663537)

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewdawg727

And repeating what i said earlier in this post, i don't hear anything about merger talk at all on the commentation. Does anyone know why there is no update about this at all?

I don't know but for every team that the IRL loses -- it gives OWRS greater leverage if there is a merger -- because on thing is for sure, George can't afford to lose the 500 and if he won't acquiesce to the demands of OWRS regarding a merger, OWRS can simply say "No Deal Tony, have fun looking for teams to fill the 500"

The Snout · 24 Jul 2006, 23:02 (Ref:1663735)

The clever chaps over at jihad forum posted these stats on IRL car counts. Looks like a 40% drop in car count in the last 8 years. No talk of new teams coming in either.

1998
WDW- 28 cars
Texas - 28 cars
Las Vegas - 28 cars

1999
WDW - 28 cars
Texas - 26 cars
Texas - 27 cars

2000
WDW - 26 cars
Texas - 27 cars
Texas - 27 cars

2001
Phoenix - 27 cars
Texas - 24 cars
Texas - 25 cars

2002
Homestead- 26 cars
Texas - 23 cars
Texas - 28 cars

2003
Homestead - 21 cars
Texas - 22 cars
Texas - 22 cars

2004
Homestead - 19 cars
Texas - 22 cars
Texas - 21 cars

2005
Homestead - 22 cars
Texas - 22 cars
Fontana - 22 cars

2006
Homestead - 20 cars
Watkins Glen - 19 cars
...talk of only 17 cars for Michigan with three races remaining after that.

http://espn.go.com/rpm/irl/2002/1031/1453873.html

"In 2002, an average of 25 cars competed in every IRL race. The league expects upwards of 30 cars attempting to qualify for IRL races in 2003, and that could create spacing problems."

Spacing problems ? Not these days. The IRL had high hopes after Honda and Toyota signed, but it's shot it's bolt and has to look for new direction if it hopes to return to the pre-03 glory days.

luke · 25 Jul 2006, 00:19 (Ref:1663771)

Stats wise lol, the IRL was much more healthy before it landed the top and most ex CART, drivers, teams, sponsers..it just drove out its own talent as they couldn't compete, which questions the original vision and what was really the vision...

The Snout · 25 Jul 2006, 02:20 (Ref:1663806)

Well there's momentum there

Michael Edick · 25 Jul 2006, 02:45 (Ref:1663815)

I think a more interesting chart would be that of race attendence...

how did the crowd in the stands look at the IRL race the other day? there was certainly a good amount of people at Edmonton to watch champ car...that alone should tell us something.

I keep hoping that cooler heads will prevail so that the two sides can get back together...just imagine if 30+ cars showed up for every race!

deejay · 25 Jul 2006, 05:57 (Ref:1663862)

Quote:

Originally Posted by luke

Stats wise lol, the IRL was much more healthy before it landed the top and most ex CART, drivers, teams, sponsers..it just drove out its own talent as they couldn't compete, which questions the original vision and what was really the vision...

You highlight a remarkable point that's already been touched on in this thread. It really wasn't so much the split that can be pointed to as the decline of OW racing in the USA, it was the time when the top teams jumped series. It was an act that simultaneously robbed Champ Car of most of its talent and destroyed all the unique things that had made IRL a factor in the first place. Since that point both series have dwindled badly.

luke · 25 Jul 2006, 11:10 (Ref:1664072)

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dl...S0105/51010005

Quote:

I agree with you on the car count, and the sad thing is, I only see it going down rather than going up. Rahal isn't likely to field three IRL cars next season and it's possible that AGR will do only three. And we see what trouble a lot of the one-car teams are having, so I don't see any of them growing. New teams? Don't see that either. The IRL has a lot of work to do in the off-season.

Quote:

I was at the Milwaukee race today, and saw a great race. I am concerned that IRL will not have as many as 16 cars to finish the season - D&R seem to be out (if you even consider Briscoe runnning substantially slower as even in this one) and the rumor at the track was that Meira in the wall might have seriously damaged their season. How many cars do you see in the final four races? Will this TG's attention? (Stephen from Milwaukee, Wisconsin)

Quote:

I can't imagine Panther doesn't continue, but your point is well taken. I can't get a read on TG as to whether he's concerned. He understands the teams have to figure out some things for themselves.

Tim Northcutt · 25 Jul 2006, 12:57 (Ref:1664157)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Edick

I think a more interesting chart would be that of race attendence...

how did the crowd in the stands look at the IRL race the other day? there was certainly a good amount of people at Edmonton to watch champ car...that alone should tell us something.

I keep hoping that cooler heads will prevail so that the two sides can get back together...just imagine if 30+ cars showed up for every race!

The IRL had more than 30,000 people at Milwaukee on Sunday. That is the number quoted in Monnday's Indianapolis Star in the article that covered the race itself. That is more than what Champ Car drew back in June at the same venue for the entire weekend.

Edmonton had 62,000 on race day and their weekend total was over 150,000, IIRC, but attendance was down 15% from last year's event for the weekend....

The Edmonton info is somewhere in the Champ Car forum and it linked to the Edmonton newspaper story to wrap up the event.

luke · 25 Jul 2006, 13:10 (Ref:1664174)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

Edmonton had 62,000 on race day and their weekend total was over 150,000, IIRC, but attendance was down 15% from last year's event for the weekend....

Attendnace was slightly down this year at Edmonton. But I think why it was as big as it was last year was down to the fact it was the inagural event. Still look at the packed grandstands and not oftern and now rarely when a driver has won a race you can actually hear the fans roar and scream over the sound of the cars.

Tim Northcutt · 25 Jul 2006, 13:12 (Ref:1664176)

I thought that the attendance was excellent...I was surprised to see that it was allegedly down from last year, to be honest....

If there is a merger, that race MUST be on the schedule....it is a mjor success that packs the stands...

Michael Edick · 25 Jul 2006, 15:29 (Ref:1664268)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

The IRL had more than 30,000 people at Milwaukee on Sunday. That is the number quoted in Monnday's Indianapolis Star in the article that covered the race itself. That is more than what Champ Car drew back in June at the same venue for the entire weekend.

the IRL must have endeared themselves to the Milwaukee crowd somehow, be it Danica fever, Hornish the 500 winner, or Marco...

but I agree, if the two clubs ever get back together, to lose Edmonton would be a crime! I may even grab an airline ticket to go work the event next year, and I'm a LBGP junkie!

Bluewolf · 26 Jul 2006, 01:19 (Ref:1664603)

I'm sure there must be a minimum number of cars that the IRL must grid to be able to run each race -- Does anyone know what that number is??? Is it a default number or does it change from track to track??? If it's 18 which seems logical I believe there's a serious question as to whether there will be an IRL 2007 season at all -- or am I missing something???

mountainstar · 26 Jul 2006, 03:49 (Ref:1664642)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Northcutt

I thought that the attendance was excellent...I was surprised to see that it was allegedly down from last year, to be honest....

If there is a merger, that race MUST be on the schedule....it is a mjor success that packs the stands...

I'll use the indy 500 excuse of the hot weather. I heard that was one of the hottest days in edmonton in a long, long time.

mountainstar · 26 Jul 2006, 04:05 (Ref:1664646)

There's a little rumor going around the ethanol money will go to hornish and rahal will be out of the irl completely. I'd say it's obvious from rahals words and actions champcar is probably in the future. We already know graham has no desire to go in circles and as bobby said graham is his #1. Read what you like into rahals dealings but it doesn't look positive for the future. There is also a rumor buddy rice has been told to start looking for another job.

AGR-I did the numbers before, but we'll give them the 3 cars.

Penske- no announcements here. I'd like to hear what the proposed sponsors are since Marlboro is about to leave a $22 million hole in the budget.

Ganassi- carpetbagger. He goes where the money goes and if target wants to return to champcar, then he'll go there. Even though he said he'll probably be in the irl for 2007, his comments about that and beyond didn't exactly inspire confidence.

Interesting Cavin comment:
"I can't get a read on TG as to whether he's concerned. He understands the teams have to figure out some things for themselves."
Sounds like the spiget to tonybux and toyota settlement bux have been shut off.

Everything seems to be sinking fast and there doesn't appear to be much concern or caring about it. Hmmmm.....

luke · 26 Jul 2006, 14:15 (Ref:1665029)

Oh yeah about the IRL having more then 8,000 fans at the Milwaukee race then the one for Champ Car...

http://www.jsonline.com/blog/index.a...06&entry=21804

norman-normal · 26 Jul 2006, 16:00 (Ref:1665100)

Oval fans are in a class by themselves.

Cowboy · 26 Jul 2006, 18:38 (Ref:1665185)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mountainstar

I'll use the indy 500 excuse of the hot weather. I heard that was one of the hottest days in edmonton in a long, long time.

Yes it was extremely hot in Edmonton and all of Alberta for that matter, I live about 2 hours from the track and it was 37.4 C in the shade. I was one that didn't go because of the extreme heat.

norman-normal · 26 Jul 2006, 19:58 (Ref:1665252)

What do we have to do Cowboy, make you take an oath??

Cowboy · 26 Jul 2006, 21:17 (Ref:1665359)

Quote:

Originally Posted by norman-normal

What do we have to do Cowboy, make you take an oath??

Pardon.

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