MG Magnette touring car info

[Al Weyman]

What that you can't legally run it with an MGB engine or you can?

[1800TISA]

Hello,

MG Magnette - Interesting topic, nice cars.

By accident I was asked about homologation forms for the ZA or ZB Magnette a few days ago and could not find any in the FIA lists. Maybe I looked in the wrong place or was the Magnette never homologated by MG in period, albeit been raced in several events?
A similar situation actually existed for the MGA Twin Cam until official "re-homologation" by the FIA historic commission in the early 90ies. I think the Marcos 1800 GT was another of those cases.

Any info on Magnette homologation forms?

Best regards,
Stephan

Munich, Germany

[Peter Mallett]

Al,

Zef said,

Originally Posted by zefarelly

spec the car to maximise its eligibility would be my advice, in doing that you'll inadvertantly be historically correct, and most likely uncompetitive . . . but you'll have a nice car!

To which I said,

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Zef,

If its got a 1622 it won't be historically correct. That engine was used by BMC to get rid of the final batch of MGA twinks in 1959 (ish), they called them the De Luxe, so certainly never fitted as OE in a Magnette.

To which morningents said,

Originally Posted by morninggents

HRSR, who race with the HSCC, would also welcome this car. If it was available in period with a 1622 cc engine you would be allowed to increase the engine size by, I think, 10.5%. We are considering allowing 50's cars to increase capacity by 12.5% which would nicely allow the 1798cc MGB engine plus a small overbore. We are also considering a season's end trophy for the best 50s car running with the normal HRSR classes.

To which I said that the engine was not original equipment as follows:

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

It was built with a 1498 (ish) cc B series engine.

The blocks are, I believe, the same all through the range.

To which you said,

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

Did'nt the B engine grow a couple of extra main bearings?

So I clarified by saying,

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Yes Al, but that was 1966 and waaay past the B series we are discussing.

The original 3 bearing ran fron 1200cc (in the A40 Devon I think) through 1498, in which form it was put into the Z, MGA, Farina Magnettes and of course the Cambridge/Oxford range, then to 1798cc in the MGB.

And you said,

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

What that you can't legally run it with an MGB engine or you can?

So to summarise, the MGB never ran a 1622 engine (except a very early prototype). Therefore to be "legal" as Zef suggests you can't run an MGB engine. Also to qualify for App k or the HRSR you can't run a 1622 because in the former they never fitted that capacity from the works but in the latter although the capacity increase percentage could get you there.

Thus the best thing for the car may be to shove in a tuned 1622 with bigger carbs etc. and run it in OBG. However the OBG may allow the use of the 1798cc engine. Needs checking.

[Mike Bell]

Originally Posted by 1800TISA

Hello, MG Magnette - Interesting topic, nice cars.

Hi Stephan, not thinking of replacing the 'B', are you? Or heaven forbid, the RS?

I remember a ZB varitone rally car around here in my youth, with MGB engine, discs, wider wheels etc., which looked and sounded very nice.

Regards, Mike

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Al,

Zef said,



To which I said,



To which morningents said,



To which I said that the engine was not original equipment as follows:



To which you said,



So I clarified by saying,



And you said,



So to summarise, the MGB never ran a 1622 engine (except a very early prototype). Therefore to be "legal" as Zef suggests you can't run an MGB engine. Also to qualify for App k or the HRSR you can't run a 1622 because in the former they never fitted that capacity from the works but in the latter although the capacity increase percentage could get you there.

Thus the best thing for the car may be to shove in a tuned 1622 with bigger carbs etc. and run it in OBG. However the OBG may allow the use of the 1798cc engine. Needs checking.

And to clarify re HRSR. If the car originally had the 1622cc engine (which, it appears, it didn't) then you could increase by 10.5%. If it only had the 1489cc to start with then it can only go plus 10.5% or to the class limit (1600cc) whichever is the lowest.

[Peter Mallett]

Who said that?

[Al Weyman]

Glad we got that sorted, we don't want to mislead the poor chap. :-)

[zefarelly]

so we're all agreed then, a '6 hour special' 2.1 Ally crossflow MGB engine on 48's it is

[Al Weyman]

With a five speed box, discs all round and Ford 9" rear axle on a five point linkage and weighing about 600kgs all up.

[Peter Mallett]

Except it should be a Jag S Type rear axle, otherwise agreed.

[terence]

But only with a 7/8ths all Ally Body,then it would fit in perfectly.

[Al Weyman]

Spot on!

[mk1mart]

im confused

[Peter Mallett]

Working with Iain, anybody would be!

[terence]

Originally Posted by mk1mart

im confused

Dot Com?

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by Al Weyman

weighing about 600kgs all up.

Yes that would be about right (the engine that is )
Think of all those hundreds of ZA/ZBs that went to their death in saloon stock cars then Al

[Peter Mallett]

Being serious.

It looks to me that you can run the car with a five bearing 1798cc engine if the only differences are pistons and crankshaft.

Originally Posted by OBG Regs

Engine
3.2.2.1. The engine must be located in its original position and the cylinder block (with the exception of Jaguar engines –(see this paragraph, below) must be of the same ‘family’, which means that all removable engine components fitted in production to the original standard block for that car will reassemble directly onto the replacement block except the pistons and crankshaft (which may be of a different material and may have a different number of main bearings). The stroke of the crankshaft must remain as standard. The only engine block in a Jaguar Mk1 permitted is the original 2.4- or 3.4 litre block maintaining its original capacity.

And brakes look free ish too.

Originally Posted by OBG Regs

Brakes
3.2.5.1. The original type of braking system should be retained on the rear wheels, although modifications are permitted. However, it is acceptable to convert from operation by rods to a suitable period hydraulic system.

3.2.5.2. If the vehicle was originally fitted with front drum brakes, these may be converted to front disc brakes, provided that the disc and caliper are of a type fitted to a comparable production road car offered for sale prior to 1st January 1966 by the same marque/vehicle manufacturer (i.e. an Austin A35 may use production front discs from an MG Midget).

Neither disc nor caliper may be modified from the standard production item, and any replacement stub axle must not alter the original suspension geometry.

http://www.themastersseries.com/reso..._Regs_2009.pdf

[GORDON STREETER]

This is what I remember of them in my Hot Rod days, although I did look after a road one up to a couple of years ago and it drove and handled a treat.

[terence]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Being serious.

It looks to me that you can run the car with a five bearing 1798cc engine if the only differences are pistons and crankshaft.



And brakes look free ish too.



http://www.themastersseries.com/reso..._Regs_2009.pdf

In that case it could be turned into a pretty quick car.

[Peter Mallett]

I know, I was just thinking that myself.

[Al Weyman]

But it says the stroke of the crankshaft must remain the same so how do you get it to the 1800cc without increasing the stroke or is the 1800cc engine the same stroke as the 1500?

Yeah see a few of those Gordon, unfortunately the ones up at Bovingdon Race way had no iron and generally lasted one race unless the twice banger champ two years running, my old mate Les Button (no relation to Jenson but he don't half look like his old man and Jenson when younger so who knows) who had a real natural talent but liked banger racing nut unfortunately would not race in non-contact sport, he would make a car last a ruddy season! He once took his virtually brand new Pontiac TransAm around the track for a face off with the track owners Steve McQueen type Mustang. They staged it like a cycle sprint race to avoid damage and I sat in with him, after about ten laps he was right on the tale of the Mustang having soundly beat him. The guy who owned the track though declared it non and void as I was in the car giving it ballast!

[Peter Mallett]

Dunno Al, that's why I said "It looks to me".

[mk1mart]

Funny how you guys get on to stock car racing because my dad grew up down the road from aldershot stadium so that was his era. He used to build superstox for his friends but never raced one. He said that he got scaired in practice so that was enuf. haha.

As for the magnettes i have im not intrested in messing around putting the 1800 engine in and i have a choice of 1622 and 1500 engines so thay will do me.

I did have a good lagh at all the quotes earlier. You said he said so i said.
Funny Funny.

[morninggents]

Originally Posted by Peter Mallett

Dunno Al, that's why I said "It looks to me".

Just looked on the Motorbase website (highly recommended as a good source of easy access to basic engine specs).

The 'B' series engine is shown as :

1489cc (as in MG Magnette ZA) 73.025mm bore X 89mm stroke
1622cc (as in Wolseley 16/60) 76.0mm " X 89mm "
1798cc (as in MG B) 80.26mm " X 89mm "

So for HRSR it would have to be the 1489 unit with overbore to 1600cc ( and, presumably, the same for CTCRC). For OBG whatever it will bore out to. For Spa as Zef suggested.

[Al Weyman]

What ever you do with it and where ever you race it Mart just make sure you do because all joking aside I think all of us here think of it fondly and as a great old machine in fact my first car was its big brother a tank of a car called a Wolseley 6/90 that shot its bolt in the middle of Edgware High Street!