BOSS GP

[Ex User]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

It's a different series - albeit with some of the existing entrants.
Some of the Dutch competitors decided to start their own series, using a very similar name and existing events.
Letting in more modern cars seems to have reduced the number of F1 cars and the majority of cars appear to be from recent second level series.

O right. Didn't realise that

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by PeterMorley

It's a different series - albeit with some of the existing entrants.
Some of the Dutch competitors decided to start their own series, using a very similar name and existing events.
Letting in more modern cars seems to have reduced the number of F1 cars and the majority of cars appear to be from recent second level series.

Spot on myself and driftwood said that would happen just look through the post in the Euroboss thread............

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Spot on myself and driftwood said that would happen just look through the post in the Euroboss thread............

Careful what you agree with you'll probably end up with an abusive PM even if it was easy to be wise before the event

[backfire]

Yes, we wondered if the break away series would actually surpass the entries of the hijacked EuroBoss series. As far as I can see entry levels are no better in numbers than before with less interesting cars, despite some obvious bankrolling of BOSS GP. I note that there have been no entries from at least two of the original Dutch four for some time - interesting.

[Thundersports]

However it was the previous regime who allowed the later cars. Should have been pre 98 cars only as has been discussed before the later F1 cars are too expensive and complicated to run. As well as that it would have excluded the later spec series cars which aren't interesting and too quick thus putting anyone off running an older F1 car.........Had Euroboss stuck with pre 98 and insisted on as close as possible original liveries only allowing current sponsors to carefully incorporate there name (like H-engineering did). As I suggested before 2 classes cars with H-pattern boxs and cars with sequential or paddle shift.
I feel the series had it set these regs would be pretty healthy and may have got slots at meetings such as the Superprix and Silverstone Classic, the late 90s Supertourers have a race at Silverstone Classic.............

[simtek12]

I'm not going to discuss the cut-off date, because it's the same old story.

But an idea I have about the way the classes are made up, is to put the (original, not Ascari B197) 1992-1997 F1 cars into the Formula class instead of the Open class.
Because these are in no way able to match the more current F1 machinery (2000-2004), but are able to match the GP2 machine and Champcars.
This way you are able to pick up a winners trophy with your older F1 car.

And to finish, is that both Frits van Eerd and Marijn van Kamlthout have other commitments, these are more important than their hobby.
Because if they could run, they would.

[SLK55]

Yeah the Dutch and the German media man Christian have certainly ruined what was a great series. Wonder whatever happened to the slightly camp little german boy ............

[adam46]

Sorry if I'm wrong but I don't see how this is Christian's fault?

If EuroBOSS let the post-97 cars in and then people bought cars from the early-2000's he can't really turn them away! Unfortunatley it would be very hard and controversial to send the newer cars away so there isn't much people can do. I mean surely if we took the Jaguar R5 away, stuck Klaas back in a B197 along with Van Kalmthout and some other cars from that era Ingo Gerstl's Modified GP2 car could win; and that wouldn't exactly endear purists who know that shouldn't be! You would end up with the Formula Class cars winning and older F1 cars on the side.

I personally think no matter what guise of the EuroBOSS or BOSS GP rulebook you look at; you simply can't get the numbers or the F1 cars in this financial climate...

[Thundersports]

Adam if you read my post the cut off point being 1997 you would exclude the GP2 cars etc so you wouldn't end up with Ingo winning the races. If they hadn't let the later cars in to start off with the teams wouldn't have bought them and they would have still run Benettons, Tyrrells, Jordans etc. It would also have mean't cars such as the Arrows A11 weren't uncompetetive forcing teams with these cars to buy later cars which are immensley complicated and expensive to run. This is why the number of F1 cars has diminished as a Gp2 car is relatively easy to run and spares off the shelf. The spec Formula cars should have found a home in Interserie. As I said it's too late now.........

[adam46]

^ Okay thought you meant the '97 cut off was for the Open Class only.

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by adam46

^ Okay thought you meant the '97 cut off was for the Open Class only.

Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

[Thundersports]

Originally Posted by SLK55

Yeah the Dutch and the German media man Christian have certainly ruined what was a great series. Wonder whatever happened to the slightly camp little german boy ............

Roger and Christian made mistakes in my opinion however they both put alot of work in to make the series happen for not alot of reward so I think that is a bit harsh

[simtek12]

Roger and Christian made mistakes in my opinion however they both put alot of work in to make the series happen for not alot of reward so I think that is a bit harsh

That is correct. Christian is not someone who can be envied.
It's extremely difficult to keep all drivers & teams happy.
And than you have this discussion thread, which is a whole other story.

What I don't believe is, that if the regs wouldn't allow 1998 cars (and younger), the series would be much bigger.
There is nothing that proves this, yet "everybody" agrees on it.
It's just an assumption.

If you want to prove this (and put your money where your mouth is), start a new series. I personally would love to visit more meetings with F1 cars.
I'm currently on 3 meetings a year, so my addiction could be fed more.

[Thundersports]

If the economy was better I think someone might do that but at the moment the established series are struggling so a new one wouldn't work.

[PeterMorley]

Just reading the French motoring newspaper La vie de l'auto and it has a report on the Nogaro Historic Grand Prix which says that the Boss GP series pulled out of the event with only 2 weeks notice.

I won't bother trying to translate the text but needless to say the promoters are dissed.
Unfortunately it does call BGP a British series, which as usual won't help endear the British to the French.

Fortunately for the spectators the organisers arranged a mixed car demonstration that had more F1 cars than a BGP event - Jordan 191, Benetton B192, Surtees TS15, Matra MS11 (driven by Henri Pescarolo) amongst other interesting cars.

[simtek12]

Well, that does make sense, as the entrylist is also made up 2 weeks before an event.

What do these organisers expect than? They sit back and wait untill these F1 cars come their track, so they can sell more tickets.
What do the owners and teams get: zero.

If you have a nice track, like Spa, Zandvoort, Monza.
The drivers will come, but something like Nogaro, they need some persuading.

The Jordan & Benetton are from BossGP drivers, so I don't see your point(s).

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by simtek12

Well, that does make sense, as the entrylist is also made up 2 weeks before an event.

What do these organisers expect than? They sit back and wait untill these F1 cars come their track, so they can sell more tickets.
What do the owners and teams get: zero.

If you have a nice track, like Spa, Zandvoort, Monza.
The drivers will come, but something like Nogaro, they need some persuading.

The Jordan & Benetton are from BossGP drivers, so I don't see your point(s).

To state the obvious; maybe the entry list is only published 2 weeks before, but the event timetable is produced a lot earlier (usually at the beginning of the season) and the publicity, advertising, event promotion and ticket sales are based on the classes/races rather than the individual cars/drivers.
And in this case we are talking about a whole category not appearing, not just a few names/cars.

Some random points:

1) If the drivers aren't likely to go to a circuit that is not 'nice' why promise the organisers you will go there?

If you run a series for current drivers to practice at circuits they are going to be racing at seriously, then don't expect them to go to a circuit that is not on their GPabc or FormulaXYZ calender.

2) The organisers promoted the event/sold tickets on the basis of the promised attendance of BGP, when BGP wait until the last minute to back down the people who have bought tickets on that basis will be disappointed.

The event organisers have rather more to organise and pay for than the few members of a private club who offer to bring their cars to demonstrate, having such acts drop out at the last minute causes event organisers all sorts of problems. This is true of many types of large event - races, concerts, festivals etc. and isn't usually insured against.

3) If some of the BGP competitiors did decide to go anyway why did they not persuade the others to do so as well.

Surely that would have been less damaging to the image of BGP.
It is certainly a long way from the stated aims of BGP which seem to be as watertight as Nick Clegg's election promises.

4) The owners and teams always get zero at any such (e.g. non-contemporary) event, anyone who spends a fortune to come first in such events is only feeding their own ego.

Don't forget I was only reporting something I read in a motoring journal that I have nothing whatsoever to do with - they are the ones who wrote an article complaining about BGP's behaviour.

[Thundersports]

I understand the Brands GP race was cancelled to accomodate this meeting as Nogaro were offering £££ to competitors.

[simtek12]

Peter, maybe I misunderstood the tone of your post.
I found it rather "telling the story from one side", maybe without you meaning it like this.
As always, a story has 2 sides, we only hear one.

The last pages of this thread are rather fighting against BossGP than helping it in any way or form, which I find very sad.
I like the series since I first seen it in 2001 and would like to see good racing with all sorts of F1 cars for many years to come.
This thread should be supporting this and have people with the same mindset. Not people bashing the only series that allow these cars to race!

I don't have the inside info, but Thundersports comment has left me puzzled.
Don't know what to say about that....

[adam46]

Simtek;
I agree 100% with all you just said, I do agree we need to make the most of what it is. In this climate they are doing a very good job of keeping the show on the road.

Thundersports comment refers to the Brands Hatch race that got cancelled (I think Nogaro offered to pay Entry and Accomadation if I recall).

[Thundersports]

Adam correct you have to bear in mind Simteks posts are written by someone else............

TGP did the same to JP at Brands he based all the promotion etc around them coming and after an on/off/on/off situation they didn't come, leaving alot of egg on the face of Brands and alot of paying public dissapointed.

[backfire]

Simtek,
Sorry to be pedantic, but you were watching BOSS (later EuroBOSS) in 2001, not BOSS GP. Peter & I have been less enthusiast than we might have been about BOSS GP, not because of the cars, but the way the series was hijacked from EuroBOSS. Also the control of the series by well healed drivers rather than an enthusiast (originally two enthusiasts), I feel, was a step in the wrong direction. Sure, there were difficulties with EuroBOSS but my stated fear that the BOSS GP move would ultimately fail may be being born out. I don't think he's seen Peter's post, but I bet Roger Cowman is not pleased that the Frogs are calling BOSS GP a British series!

[PeterMorley]

Originally Posted by backfire

Simtek,
Also the control of the series by well healed drivers rather than an enthusiast (originally two enthusiasts), I feel, was a step in the wrong direction. Sure, there were difficulties with EuroBOSS but my stated fear that the BOSS GP move would ultimately fail may be being born out. I don't think he's seen Peter's post, but I bet Roger Cowman is not pleased that the Frogs are calling BOSS GP a British series!

For some reason the expression about lunatics running the asylum keeps wandering into my mind.

Roger certainly won't have seen the recent postings since he's currently convalescing, but should be back in action later next week.

Those of us who know Roger (who came up with the BOSS concept and name) are probably more aware of the difficulties involved in running such a series than the competitors, that is one reason we were worried when it was hijacked.

Maybe now is the time for BGP to think of an original name for their series to prevent any further devaluation of the brand.

In this climate they are doing a very good job of keeping the show on the road.

I'm not sure that the 'economic climate' can be blamed for reduced entries, you only have to look at classic car auctions to see that the well heeled car enthusiasts aren't struggling (the wealthy/cash rich tend to benefit hugely from recessions).
The small grids in similar series (3 litre F1, Group C etc) could simply be due to a few competitors spending far more than the others - such issues have caused the demise of many once popular series for old racing cars.

[simtek12]

Originally Posted by Thundersports

Adam correct you have to bear in mind Simteks posts are written by someone else............

Sorry, but this is nonsense. You don't know (anything about) me, so you can't state something like that!
With something like this, I feel no need to post ever again. This is ridiculous.

If you look at my previous posts, with pictures and stories, you should have been able to figure that out yourself.

I don't feel the need to reveal my full name, but try doing some research on DJS Exclusive.....

[SLK55]

I suspect that Simtek is that whimpering German Christian. I agree with all of the anti Boss GP comments.
At least Roger had something about him, he was Charismatic and charming with a hint of naughtiness.
Boss GP has gone down the pan, and personally I hope it stays there. If Christian hasn't got the balls to admit this, then it confirms that really he has just got a chip on his shoulder.

Roger Cowman, you are a legend !