Mad Max versus The Honey Badger - Page 10

peterelise · 25 Oct 2016, 00:34 (Ref:3682617)

I agree that next year is looking to be a cracker between these two. Dan looks to be leading comfortably at the moment with the key stats as follows for the period they have been team mates.

Average Qualifying Position
DR 3.86
MV 6.00 (if you count Monaco as qualifying 21st when he crashed)
MV 4.85 (if you exclude Monaco)
Head to head qualifying battle DR 10 - MV 4
Average qualifying gap 0.273

Average Race Finish Position
DR 3.79
MV 5.69 (excluding COTA DNF)
Head to head race finish DR 9 - MV 5
Points DR 191 - MV 152

However if you have a look only at the races from Silverstone (where Max first out qualified Dan) the qualifying position is much closer:
Average Qualifying Position from Silverstone on
DR 4.0
MV 4.0
Head to head qualifying battle DR 5 - MV 4
Average qualifying gap 0.013 in Dan's favour

but the race results are slanted more in Dan's favour in this period
Average Race Finish Position from Silverstone on
DR 3.1
MV 4.7 (excluding COTA DNF)
Head to head race finish DR 7 - MV 2
Points DR 139 - MV 93

The race results for Max have been affected by mistakes like Spa where he finished out of the points, the DNF at COTA and then arguably he was unlucky to finish behind DR in Malaysia having qualified in front and then needed to take avoiding action in turn 1 on lap 1.

The conclusion for me is that these guys are much closer in raw speed than it looks on paper and that Max is still much earlier in the process of gathering experience. At this point of this season Dan is clearly doing a better job but I wouldn't recommend that FAS33 puts his house on Dan to win the inter team battle next year just yet.

**John Turner** · 25 Oct 2016, 09:37 (Ref:3682713)

Yes, but if you argue that Max was unlucky, then surely the same is true of Dan, who could well have had two additional wins under his belt but for team strategy decisions that went against him. Great stats/analysis though, thanks.

peterelise · 25 Oct 2016, 13:22 (Ref:3682742)

Absolutely agree that Dan has also been unlucky at various points.

I have been keeping track of each of their bad luck episodes and maintaining an adjusted points table to take account of things like Dan's poor Monaco pitstop or Max's DNF at COTA and on my reckoning, the points gap between the two of them would be even greater in Dan's favour if you made those sorts of adjustments.

Given I am Australian and a big fan of Dan's I haven't put up figures for the bad luck adjustments as ultimately they are all very subjective and I have no doubt an unbiased fan of Max would generate a very different result to this hopefully unbiased fan of Dan!

S griffin · 25 Oct 2016, 16:46 (Ref:3682785)

It's so refreshing to see two drivers getting the best out of each other by pushing each other to do better. I can see both of them challenging for the title next year if the car is good enough

**Aysedasi** · 25 Oct 2016, 19:55 (Ref:3682833)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

It's so refreshing to see two drivers getting the best out of each other by pushing each other to do better. I can see both of them challenging for the title next year if the car is good enough

Now that's the correct answer. Let's relish what they're both achieving now and are capable of achieving. Why we have these constant partisan threads which the unbiased have to referee is beyond me......

FAS33 · 25 Oct 2016, 20:20 (Ref:3682839)

Quote:

Originally Posted by peterelise

I agree that next year is looking to be a cracker between these two. Dan looks to be leading comfortably at the moment with the key stats as follows for the period they have been team mates.

Average Qualifying Position
DR 3.86
MV 6.00 (if you count Monaco as qualifying 21st when he crashed)
MV 4.85 (if you exclude Monaco)
Head to head qualifying battle DR 10 - MV 4
Average qualifying gap 0.273

Average Race Finish Position
DR 3.79
MV 5.69 (excluding COTA DNF)
Head to head race finish DR 9 - MV 5
Points DR 191 - MV 152

However if you have a look only at the races from Silverstone (where Max first out qualified Dan) the qualifying position is much closer:
Average Qualifying Position from Silverstone on
DR 4.0
MV 4.0
Head to head qualifying battle DR 5 - MV 4
Average qualifying gap 0.013 in Dan's favour

but the race results are slanted more in Dan's favour in this period
Average Race Finish Position from Silverstone on
DR 3.1
MV 4.7 (excluding COTA DNF)
Head to head race finish DR 7 - MV 2
Points DR 139 - MV 93

The race results for Max have been affected by mistakes like Spa where he finished out of the points, the DNF at COTA and then arguably he was unlucky to finish behind DR in Malaysia having qualified in front and then needed to take avoiding action in turn 1 on lap 1.

The conclusion for me is that these guys are much closer in raw speed than it looks on paper and that Max is still much earlier in the process of gathering experience. At this point of this season Dan is clearly doing a better job but I wouldn't recommend that FAS33 puts his house on Dan to win the inter team battle next year just yet.

I've got my house, Jet, cattle station, yatch and Ferrari on Dan winning the WDC next year. We got this.

Dutch chap · 25 Oct 2016, 21:24 (Ref:3682851)

Quote:

Originally Posted by S griffin

It's so refreshing to see two drivers getting the best out of each other by pushing each other to do better. I can see both of them challenging for the title next year if the car is good enough

This says it all. As a Dutchman I love it to finally have a fellow Dutchman as a true competitor, but as motorsport enthousiast I love it even more to see team members pushing each other to the limit. A bit like Lauda vs Prost, Prost vs Senna. Let's hope there will not be team orders next year. It ruined the Andretti vs Peterson battle. Don't want to see that again.

wnut · 25 Oct 2016, 23:03 (Ref:3682865)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Now that's the correct answer. Let's relish what they're both achieving now and are capable of achieving. Why we have these constant partisan threads which the unbiased have to referee is beyond me......

Plus one to this.

Would be really good if a few teams were in the running too, not just damn Mercedes running away with everything!

Neppatsrev Xam · 26 Oct 2016, 08:06 (Ref:3682910)

A simple fact is that Ricciardo seems to be performing better since Max came to the team.

BSchneiderFan · 26 Oct 2016, 12:15 (Ref:3682995)

Ricciardo has said as much, that Verstappen's arrival has pushed him to perform at a higher level.

spider · 26 Oct 2016, 14:35 (Ref:3683045)

It says something of the ability of Max that I see him as the bar - and if Daniel outperforms him he's done exceptional.

Most exciting pairing since Alonso v Hamilton, for me.

newlaprecord · 27 Oct 2016, 08:01 (Ref:3683305)

Ive just read that Max reckons Hamilton and Alonso are the best on the grid, but he would no doubt beat Hamilton for the title in a Mercedes.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns35116.html

Its all good and -as he points out- confidence is key, the only thing Im wondering how he ranks the guy who outqualifies him on the regular by nearly 0.3sec and outscores him by over 25% (STR times excluded)... isnt he a tad on the delusional side?

BSchneiderFan · 27 Oct 2016, 12:24 (Ref:3683358)

Not delusional, just self-confident. No front-running Formula 1 driver is ever going to say another driver, let alone his team mate, is faster than him. Self-belief, whether justified or not, is vital.

**Aysedasi** · 27 Oct 2016, 19:20 (Ref:3683437)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

Not delusional, just self-confident. No front-running Formula 1 driver is ever going to say another driver, let alone his team mate, is faster than him. Self-belief, whether justified or not, is vital.

And young - very young. He still has a lot to learn and when he does, in a competitive car, he could rule the roost for a long time.....

FAS33 · 27 Oct 2016, 21:40 (Ref:3683462)

Quote:

Originally Posted by newlaprecord

Ive just read that Max reckons Hamilton and Alonso are the best on the grid, but he would no doubt beat Hamilton for the title in a Mercedes.

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns35116.html

Its all good and -as he points out- confidence is key, the only thing Im wondering how he ranks the guy who outqualifies him on the regular by nearly 0.3sec and outscores him by over 25% (STR times excluded)... isnt he a tad on the delusional side?

can't even beat his own team mate. Thanks for the laughs hahaha