An American Silhouette TC series?

[ptclaus98]

Let me preface this by saying, America has never been terribly accepting of Touring Cars(unless you count NASCAR). But I've come across the Copa NEXTEL in Brazil(which, I guess, is the same as Stock Car Brasil), and I think with a few changes it could be a viable series. A few points I've had trouble with:


Body panels: Is it enough to have a template? Or could you work out a deal where there is an aerodynamic formula that is sent out to any manufacturers that would compete, and they design the panels, and they could either build them themselves, or send them to to a Crawford, or Riley, or Coyote, or Panoz, to be built and then sold.

Standard parts: Seeing as this (in my mind) is a motorsport to get tuning companies and tuners in the fold, what parts could be standardized? Tires, transmissions, engine ancilliaries, suspension components, brakes?

Engines:Is it better to have limits on HP? Engine size? Engine cylinders? Considering the focus of the series, stock block engines are a must. What are the cons of that? Would it be financially viable to use systems such as KERS?

[duke_toaster]

Yes, Copa Nextel is the name for Stock Car Brazil.

Stock Car Brazil only has two body styles, and I think the same outfit designed them. I'm pretty sure most if not all of the Stock Car Brazil gear is spec, the engines are 5000cc or so Chevrolet lumps. I think all the things you proposed are spec, and who doesn't have a control tyre in this day and age. IMO It's stupid from a technical point of view to go for regenerative braking on cars with oversized engines. You could easily get as much power out from a turbo unit half the size.

[Speed-King]

With DTM and Grand Am in negotiations about a rules merger right now, this might very well happen in the near future!!

Let me preface this by saying, America has never been terribly accepting of Touring Cars(unless you count NASCAR)

I wouldn't count NASCAR, but I would count 1980s Trans-Am and IMSA GTO/U... hardly any sportscars in there and some of the car types that competed in those classes back then competed in touring cars in Europe (RX-7, Sierra (XR4Ti)

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

With DTM and Grand Am in negotiations about a rules merger right now, this might very well happen in the near future!!



I wouldn't count NASCAR, but I would count 1980s Trans-Am and IMSA GTO/U... hardly any sportscars in there and some of the car types that competed in those classes back then competed in touring cars in Europe (RX-7, Sierra (XR4Ti)

The result would look more Grand Am than DTM though.

[Valenok]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

The result would look more Grand Am than DTM though.

I think, it's impossible for ITR - to convert DTM into Grand-Am. Aufrecht just want to get BMW in his series. And BMW just want to race their M3 - GT or Silhouette. And M3 has nothing common with mid-engine DP cars.
AFAIK, it were rumors about Big Three wanted road-going serie like V8. They asked NASCAR, but ofcause Helton refused. So, DTM-GrandAm connection is not a bad way to get such series.

[Speed-King]

Right now, in Grand Am all bets are off... The series has a new president, and he seems very open to changes of the current formula. And the Daytona Prototypes' ten years of guaranteed elegibility will be over at the end of 2012. And I think that Bledsoe (the new president) realizes that - despite some success early on and really good racing - the DPs have not fulfilled Grand Am's/NASCAR's expectations in terms of fans and sponsorship, so a change in formula might very well be in the books.

And then, who's to say that the next-gen-DTM-car will be front-engined? These are prototypes anyway, so why not just move the engine to the back? The Silhouette cars in BTCS for example are mid-engined and there's a provision in the DP-rules for manufacturer specific bodywork.
DP + manufacturer specific bodywork = mid-engined Silhouette race car
DTM + engine moved to the back = mid-engined Silhouette race car.

So these two are even now actually a lot closer then one would normally believe.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Valenok

I think, it's impossible for ITR - to convert DTM into Grand-Am. Aufrecht just want to get BMW in his series. And BMW just want to race their M3 - GT or Silhouette. And M3 has nothing common with mid-engine DP cars.
AFAIK, it were rumors about Big Three wanted road-going serie like V8. They asked NASCAR, but ofcause Helton refused. So, DTM-GrandAm connection is not a bad way to get such series.

The GT cars can be silhouette.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Right now, in Grand Am all bets are off... The series has a new president, and he seems very open to changes of the current formula. And the Daytona Prototypes' ten years of guaranteed elegibility will be over at the end of 2012. And I think that Bledsoe (the new president) realizes that - despite some success early on and really good racing - the DPs have not fulfilled Grand Am's/NASCAR's expectations in terms of fans and sponsorship, so a change in formula might very well be in the books.

And then, who's to say that the next-gen-DTM-car will be front-engined? These are prototypes anyway, so why not just move the engine to the back? The Silhouette cars in BTCS for example are mid-engined and there's a provision in the DP-rules for manufacturer specific bodywork.
DP + manufacturer specific bodywork = mid-engined Silhouette race car
DTM + engine moved to the back = mid-engined Silhouette race car.

So these two are even now actually a lot closer then one would normally believe.

They can have front engined silhouette cars, though. the RX-8 and the M6 are both space frame silhouette cars.

[FIRE]

It would be great to have a road course series with NASCAR cars. The NASCAR events at Watkins Glen, Montreal, Sonona and Road America are great.

[NaBUru38]

I don't understand your proposal, ptclaus. You want a version of Belgian Touring Cars or Stock Car Brazil (official name Copa Caixa for 2010) but in the United States. Do you mean Nationwide CoTs running in road courses, or silhouettes which actually look like the road cars?

[Speed-King]

There was a late model road racing series run by ASA a few years ago - unfortunately it tanked. Some of the cars made their way into Trans-Am in that series final years before its death (and zombiefication :P) and many are still road raced in US club racing. Check out www.v8stockcar.com for some more info, I beleive there are some ASA-cars as well as some NASCAR-stockcars in that series and it's all road racing.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

I don't understand your proposal, ptclaus. You want a version of Belgian Touring Cars or Stock Car Brazil (official name Copa Caixa for 2010) but in the United States. Do you mean Nationwide CoTs running in road courses, or silhouettes which actually look like the road cars?

Brazilian Stock Cars with more than one engine.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

There was a late model road racing series run by ASA a few years ago - unfortunately it tanked. Some of the cars made their way into Trans-Am in that series final years before its death (and zombiefication :P) and many are still road raced in US club racing. Check out www.v8stockcar.com for some more info, I beleive there are some ASA-cars as well as some NASCAR-stockcars in that series and it's all road racing.

Not like that. I'm not looking for American type stockcars with carbed V8's. Nor am I looking for tube framed GT cars. I'm thinking about the shell and spaceframe from the Copa Caixa series, with different engines, suspension components built by different companies, and control brakes and drivetrain components and maybe tires.

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Not like that. I'm not looking for American type stockcars with carbed V8's. Nor am I looking for tube framed GT cars. I'm thinking about the shell and spaceframe from the Copa Caixa series, with different engines, suspension components built by different companies, and control brakes and drivetrain components and maybe tires.

Sorry for the confusion - my posting was in response to FIRE's post.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Sorry for the confusion - my posting was in response to FIRE's post.

Oh, ok. Don't forget the Trans Am series run by NASA. I think that has some old stock cars littered in it as well. And American Iron.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

They can have front engined silhouette cars, though. the RX-8 and the M6 are both space frame silhouette cars.

Thought all but the 911 were tube frame Prep 2 cars? Not too sure about the Vettes, know some are tube frames but are they all? As for the M6, isn't it just a re-bodied GTO/G6 with a new engine (?) from the past seasons, along with the Camaros.

[Speed-King]

Here's the breakdown on GAGT-chassis:
Porsche: unibody
Corvette: some unibody (LG, Whelen), some tubeframe (on various chassis, Leighton Reese's is a reskinned P&M Pontiac, Conolly's a Crawford)
Camaro: reskinned P&M Pontiac
BMW: Turner runs a Riley-chassis (same as the RX-8s basically), Corsa used to run a reskinned P&M, but switched to ALMS-LMPC.
Mazda: All Riley-tubeframe chassis.

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by Speed-King

Here's the breakdown on GAGT-chassis:
Porsche: unibody
Corvette: some unibody (LG, Whelen), some tubeframe (on various chassis, Leighton Reese's is a reskinned P&M Pontiac, Conolly's a Crawford)
Camaro: reskinned P&M Pontiac
BMW: Turner runs a Riley-chassis (same as the RX-8s basically), Corsa used to run a reskinned P&M, but switched to ALMS-LMPC.
Mazda: All Riley-tubeframe chassis.

Thanks for clearing that up. Where'd you get that info anyway?

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

Thanks for clearing that up. Where'd you get that info anyway?

Maybe I shouldn't admit it on here, but being a Grand Am fan helps with those things,
and then there's always the Rolex Series Car Numbers List, where you can look up stuff like that. That one is a bit confusing, though, since it lists some Mazda's as "Rileys" and some as "Speedsource", when in fact they are built by both, i.e. the bare tubeframe chassis comes from Riley, but Speedsource turn it into a Mazda.