[FIA GT] FIA GT 2007 - Which direction?

[Adam43]

For the record the changes after the World Motor Sport Council meeting have been posted by the FIA here: http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press...181006-01.html

Originally Posted by FIA

The number of events counting towards the Championship will be limited to 10.
Events will be run over two days.
Races will run for two hours and each car will have to perform two mandatory pit stops.
Each car will be allowed to use a maximum three engines per season.
Each car will use a single set of gearbox ratios for the entire season and a maximum of three final drives homologated by the FIA.
The championship will have a sole supplier of brakes, homologated by the FIA.

[davemk7]

two day events are a good idea, 2 hour races are ok if they only had to make 1 stop (which they would make because they need fuel). 2 manditory pitstops (ie manditory pitstops) make the series a joke series. They are just an artificially way of creating overtaking (and it dosen't work)
engine changes rule is good (but they could have said 2 or even 1) but the big teams will always spend the same just on something else.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

Every year the same things are said about the FIA GT Championship, that the series looks to be going through a tough time and that entries look set to drop along with the quality and variety. And each year the series gets better and better. IMO. As Mirkob pointed out, Zakspeed may well enter 2 cars next year and the Playteam Maserati MC12 may well be seen in the Championship along with Racing Box and perhaps PSI. Thats potentially 4 more GT1 cars, now even if only 1 or 2 of these cars turns up that will still boost the series dramatically with around 12 GT1 cars, possibly 14 if all the potential entrants show up.

Just watched the Adria highlights, watching the start their appeared to be about 12 cars, it was actually 19-20, but the fact is the grid looked very thin.

Theres no denying hte series took a step back this season without the FIA WTCC support, plus the lack of 550's and Listers.

Zackspeed are the kind of team that switch Championships season to season, while Vitaphone could easily run in the LMS or DTM (support or main event).

The long haul events have been ditched, so why not take advantage and run to GT3 regs.

As the GT3 regs don't appear to be set in stone, there could be a few tweaks to speed the cars up slightly, without dramatically increasing costs.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Manufacturer not factory (I know that may sound a bit pedantic, sorry). Road car manufacturers; Audi, Peugeot, Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Porsche, BMW etc.etc. The cars must be closed top and the ACO want the cars to bear just a smidgeon of resemblance to the manufacturers road cars (by that I mean the odd styling cue).

Manufactuers will be steered to P1 and away from P2, but specialist manufactuers (Lola, Zytek etc.) will still be able to compete against 'road car' manufactuers in the 2010 P1 class, at least thats what I was told when I enquired.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

I agree, as soon as the LMS even tries to expand its calender you will find that a lot of the entries simply fall away because they simply dont have the budgets, good TV coverage and promotion or not. The FIA GT Championship has good promotion and good crowds at most events. Nobody here can honestly tell me that the LMS gets better crowd attendances than the FIA GT Championship. Also, there is no way that the GT1 and GT2 teams in the LMS are anywhere near the level of the teams found in FIA GT, sure there are a few like Oreca and GPC but the vast majority arent. IMO.



Exactly, as soon as the series steps away from Europe it will suffer in terms of entry numbers. IMO.



Exactly, why stay with a series that is mainly European and has no real prospects of major expansion? Added to that if you race in the LMS with a GT1 or GT2 car all you are is a side show, the ammount of TV coverage you get is marginal. In the FIA GT Championship there are fewer classes and everyone tends to get a more even spread of TV coverage. What would be great for the series is to have more G3 class cars racing at the regular rounds like we have had a few times this year, but change the class name to GT3. IMO.



Exactly, as has been said in the FIA GT future thread there are a number of potential entries waiting to join the FIA GT Championship for next year. Even if not all of the potential cars make it to the grid for 2007 and only 1 or 2 do that would still mean GT1 grids of 12+ throughout the course of the season.

Expanding from five to, lets say, eight events will hardly have a dramatic impact on entries, especially as the calibre of teams is improving each season. You would also gain local entries wherever you turned up.

As for teams not being interested in a series that does not expand beyond Europe, isn't that the point, a European Le Mans series, in addition to Le Mans.

If a team wants a fly away event they can compete in the biggest market of all, the US, and the ALMS.

A European season capped by Sebring and PLM/Laguna has a nice ring to it. The only other market of serious interest to sportcar teams at this time is the far east, specifically China and Japan.

Are races in Dubai and Brazil of interest to European teams?

The quality of teams?

You can argue about that all day long, I'll just ask what state FIA GT would be in if any two of Vitaphone, GLPK, BMS or Zackspeed left?

Finally, you ask whether teams would be interested in being a 'sideshow' to the prototypes in the LMS, I'd simply point you to the ALMS and the media and fan interest generated by the Corvette vs Aston battles this season.

I have watched a lot of GT1 racing this year, but most of that has been in the ALMS, not FIA GT.

[Bob Riebe]

2010 is far off, I wonder just what crystal ball, they are starring at.
Bob

[19dodge]

Originally Posted by davemk7

two day events are a good idea, 2 hour races are ok if they only had to make 1 stop (which they would make because they need fuel). 2 manditory pitstops (ie manditory pitstops) make the series a joke series. They are just an artificially way of creating overtaking (and it dosen't work)

They are doing the two mandatory stops because some teams have three drivers. How else would they get a 3 driver lineup to work?

Some teams rely on a third driver as part of their budget.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by JAG

Manufactuers will be steered to P1 and away from P2, but specialist manufactuers (Lola, Zytek etc.) will still be able to compete against 'road car' manufactuers in the 2010 P1 class, at least thats what I was told when I enquired.

You've probably now read my subsequent post when 'old man' asked about the likes of Zytek/Creation/Courage etc., but just in case:

Originally Posted by Bentley03

These smaller, specialist racecar builders will all use the ACO regs series over the next couple of years to display their technology and try to attract a big manufacturer who will fund and badge their products. We're seeing the start of this process with the LMP2 Acura Lola and Courage's in the ALMS next season.

I should add that these specialist builders will also want to tap into the LMP2 market.

That's the situation as I understand it, but as yet, neither the regs nor the entry criteria for 2010 LMP1's have been announced. I would imagine there's an awful lot of dialogue going on between the ACO and the manufacturers and until that's complete we will know nothing for sure.

I would also be very surprised if the ACO decreed that 'off the shelf' LMP1's for privateers were simply not allowed. We'll just have to wait and see.

[Hazard]

Can't grumble about it till I've seen it. I'd imagine a two hour race could work, but also can't see the plan behind the pitstops - makes it a bit like an extra-long DTM race.

With everyone used to weak little 2 hour races...be interesting to see them suddenly handle Spa.

[Graham Goodwin]

Originally Posted by SALEEN S7R

as soon as the LMS even tries to expand its calender you will find that a lot of the entries simply fall away because they simply dont have the budgets, good TV coverage and promotion or not.

The FIA GT Championship has good promotion and good crowds at most events.

Nobody here can honestly tell me that the LMS gets better crowd attendances than the FIA GT Championship.

Also, there is no way that the GT1 and GT2 teams in the LMS are anywhere near the level of the teams found in FIA GT, sure there are a few like Oreca and GPC but the vast majority arent. IMO.

why stay with a series that is mainly European and has no real prospects of major expansion? Added to that if you race in the LMS with a GT1 or GT2 car all you are is a side show, the ammount of TV coverage you get is marginal.

Exactly, as has been said in the FIA GT future thread there are a number of potential entries waiting to join the FIA GT Championship for next year. Even if not all of the potential cars make it to the grid for 2007 and only 1 or 2 do that would still mean GT1 grids of 12+ throughout the course of the season.

OK - In order

They aren't trying to expamd their calendar therefore that is irrelevant

The don't have good promotion and good attendance at most events in FIA GT - They have crowds which very wildly.

No the LMS crowds are poor too - but they will be better with the manufacturer euros that are about to pour in - Even if you go down the road of "The FIA GT has lots of manufacturers" those manufacturers are doing little or nothing to drive crowds through the gate.

If you are seriously trying to say that Larbre aren't at the level of BMS and that LNT and Autorlando aren't at the level of Scuderia Ecosse and Ebimotors then I'm happy to say that your opinion is wrong. Both series have good, mediocre and poor teams

Not every team is looking for TV coverage - Sadly for the FIA GT Championship several of their GT! teams are looking for it and not getting it in the most important markets for them

Surely by now everyone here is beyond judging the strength of championships for the following year on the basis of rumoured entries. Your assumption also doesn't take into account the possibility that 2006 teams will drop out.

[Bentley03]

Originally Posted by 19dodge

Official Schedule Released.. No Mil Milhas, or Argentina..

http://www.the-paddock.net/content/view/240762/49/

Nor am I, there's some serious backtracking going on there!

But it is, at the very least, an acknowledgement that the championship is in trouble. It could even be construed as an admission of defeat. Ratel's clearly struggling to hold the thing together.

Whether these measures will be anywhere near enough to turn things around remains to be seen. I think we'd all like to have a flourishing FIAGT championship, but I have my doubts that we ever will if Ratel continues in this vein.

Perhaps we need to look a little more closely at the results of the poll which our Italian friends presented to us for some of the answers.

[davemk7]

Originally Posted by 19dodge

They are doing the two mandatory stops because some teams have three drivers. How else would they get a 3 driver lineup to work?

Some teams rely on a third driver as part of their budget.

you make a fair point they do need the third driver for budget reason, but (and I don't know how much these things cost) are you really going to pay for 40 minutes (at most I'd guess) of driving when you can get 2 hours probably in the lms?

[davemk7]

Originally Posted by Hazard

Can't grumble about it till I've seen it. I'd imagine a two hour race could work, but also can't see the plan behind the pitstops - makes it a bit like an extra-long DTM race.

With everyone used to weak little 2 hour races...be interesting to see them suddenly handle Spa.

A wise sentiment, if it is awful (like the 2 hour test race in turkey last year was) then i'll moan, if the racing is good then I'll praise them all I can.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Bentley03

Nor am I, there's some serious backtracking going on there!

But it is, at the very least, an acknowledgement that the championship is in trouble. It could even be construed as an admission of defeat. Ratel's clearly struggling to hold the thing together.

Whether these measures will be anywhere near enough to turn things around remains to be seen. I think we'd all like to have a flourishing FIAGT championship, but I have my doubts that we ever will if Ratel continues in this vein.

Perhaps we need to look a little more closely at the results of the poll which our Italian friends presented to us for some of the answers.

Yes Bentley is quite right here, for me the change to two hour races must have something to do with TV and good TV is vital to the series in my opinion. The vast majority of teams run with driver money and it must be difficult to sell the series to a sponsor without TV, it's hard enough with it, especially in GT2 as the ALMS teams would confirm as you get the last bit of consideration from the TV director and hence the comentator.

But 2 mandatory stops! Please define "stop", do we mean come to a halt, do we mean stop the engine and restart, do we mean stationary for 10 seconds, 20 seconds, 30 seconds. Strategy becomes limited when you do this and I tend to agree that it is to allow the teams to run three drivers at no disadvantage so you can bet on a time definition. C*** in my opinion.

No mention of drivers qualifications, can you run two/three pro's?

What if you run one top pro, 2 hours is no problem for a top driver, he does his two mandatory stops, runs minimum fuel all the time, Michelin tyres will run all the race.

How many team managers were consulted?

We are going backwards and with the news that TWI are to link the TV for the 24 hours to the LMS series and so be able to negitiate a better deal the LMS will be the winner. But lets be honest about the reason the for the strength of the LMS, it is that guaranteed entry that brings the teams and when it comes to how many races it becomes a cost - benefit question, how much will you pay to win a guaranteed place at Le Mans?

[old man]

Originally Posted by davemk7

you make a fair point they do need the third driver for budget reason, but (and I don't know how much these things cost) are you really going to pay for 40 minutes (at most I'd guess) of driving when you can get 2 hours probably in the lms?

You can work on £50k per car per race, running two cars and depending on your tyre deal. This is in Europe, more outside and I think this is for GT2 so more for GT1 so I agree, if you are paying upwards of £15K per race for 40 minutes or less you want good TV and a lot of prestige. LMS will be more because of the rebuilds after 6 hour races.

[Nick49]

Hello

I would say that there is no denying the Le Mans 24 hours has a huge influence on what happens in sports car racing. It is "The Big Race" and everyone wants to be there. It has survived being part of an FIA championship and running outside of the FIA. The ACO brought in the four classes and then started the LMS with guaranteed entries for the top two in each class. This has created a very popular series with vast grids racing a proper endurance length at each venue even though sometimes, it seems the ACO doesn't seem to have much interest in it!!

The trouble with the FIA GT is almost because its run as an FIA championship. I've always had the feeling that the ACO doesn't care much for the FIA. I've enjoyed watching all the FIA GT races this year on Bravo 2 and I'm disappointed that they seem to want to revert to a two hour format with two pitstops. Two hours is like a sprint race to me and perhaps thats what it should be with only pitstops if you need it. "Ball outs" sports car racing for two hours could be quite good and might appeal to drivers as an alternative to the six hour endurance of the LMS. Make sure the two series don't clash so teams could run in both. Why aren't the regs the same for both series anyway as I get the impression there are detail differences.

In fact make the FIA GT a sprint format and give the Spa 24 Hours over to the LMS! Two 24 hour races in one season.

Nick

[911 GT1]

[QUOTE=old man]

How many team managers were consulted?

QUOTE]

All GT1 Team managers had been asked about their wishes.

[Bernard Bram]

Originally Posted by JAG

I personally believe we will see a number of the major German and Belgian teams commit to LMS due to the better TV/media coverage, possibly supplementing their campaign with the odd FIA GT outing.

There's no such thing as better tv coverage for lms in Germany. MotorsTv is only available through local cable companys in parts of the country. As long as it isn't on Premiere, only a small audiance will be able to watch it. And anybody who wants its series on a major channel will have to pay. Does'nt matter if it's a three or two hour race.

That's what i don't understand. If the german based teams want a 2 hour format, because they think this will help secure a tv deal they're mistaken imho. There wont be any coverage on the public channels, ARD already makes a mess of the DTM. The private channels won't show it if TGF isn't in it and DSF can't be called a sports channel anymore. They do everything the cheap way. And Eurosport is Eurosport, it's europewide coverage or nothing at all. And for pay tv like Premiere it should'nt matter if it is 2, 3 or 6 hours per race because only the fans will pay for it, not the casual viewer.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by Bernard Bram

There's no such thing as better tv coverage for lms in Germany. MotorsTv is only available through local cable companys in parts of the country. As long as it isn't on Premiere, only a small audiance will be able to watch it. And anybody who wants its series on a major channel will have to pay. Does'nt matter if it's a three or two hour race.

That's what i don't understand. If the german based teams want a 2 hour format, because they think this will help secure a tv deal they're mistaken imho. There wont be any coverage on the public channels, ARD already makes a mess of the DTM. The private channels won't show it if TGF isn't in it and DSF can't be called a sports channel anymore. They do everything the cheap way. And Eurosport is Eurosport, it's europewide coverage or nothing at all. And for pay tv like Premiere it should'nt matter if it is 2, 3 or 6 hours per race because only the fans will pay for it, not the casual viewer.

LMS media coverage in 2007, with Audi and Peugeot backing, and the new TV deal, will be much improved.

Highlights packages are also just as important as live coverage.

[davemk7]

does that mean lms races live in the uk next year? (assumedly on motorstv?) 3 hour highlight packages are just not enough.

[SALEEN S7R]

I woudnt count on the races being live on Motors TV, not unless Motors TV have a big change of heart and decide to dump the DTM and BTCC. Traditionally these series tend to attract more viewers. Perhaps though Sky Sports will cover the events live? They did with the ELMS after all.

[JAG]

Originally Posted by davemk7

does that mean lms races live in the uk next year? (assumedly on motorstv?) 3 hour highlight packages are just not enough.

Theres no need for live races, just a better all round package on more channels.

Being a French station, Motors TV may well choose LMS over BTCC/DTM, at least showing the start/finish live.

[SALEEN S7R]

Motors TV UK though JAG does often get a differnt TV schedule to mainland Europe. I see no reason why Motors TV UK would switch from live BTCC coverage to live LMS coverage. It would simply lose them viewers and people would just switch over to ITV. The DTM however woudnt be as much of a issue perhaps.

[davemk7]

Live would be best but I don't care if they show the race at 3am monday morning as long as I get the full 6 hours / 1000km's.

[old man]

Originally Posted by Bernard Bram

There's no such thing as better tv coverage for lms in Germany. MotorsTv is only available through local cable companys in parts of the country. As long as it isn't on Premiere, only a small audiance will be able to watch it. And anybody who wants its series on a major channel will have to pay. Does'nt matter if it's a three or two hour race.

That's what i don't understand. If the german based teams want a 2 hour format, because they think this will help secure a tv deal they're mistaken imho. There wont be any coverage on the public channels, ARD already makes a mess of the DTM. The private channels won't show it if TGF isn't in it and DSF can't be called a sports channel anymore. They do everything the cheap way. And Eurosport is Eurosport, it's europewide coverage or nothing at all. And for pay tv like Premiere it should'nt matter if it is 2, 3 or 6 hours per race because only the fans will pay for it, not the casual viewer.

So the change to a two hour format that is not popular with most people here and is not welcomed by the drivers is being done at the request of German entrants who are wasting their time because what they want just won't happen, sounds like good French logic.

Someone points out the comment that "All GT1 team managers were consulted", seems GT2 team managers must just do as they are told! Fine, thanks a bunch GT2, now just go away and play with your little cars until the grown ups have decided what is best for you