What should be done about tire wear?????

[DavyboyLT1]

It looked to me like those Michelins were getting pretty worn out. When is the FIA going to create and enforce a rule on the depth of grooves required on a tire at the end of a race?

Personally, I'd like them to just go back to using proper racing tires (i.e. slicks).

[f1manoz]

Bring back slicks.

It would stop all these stupid little rules about depth of groove, how smooth the surface appears etc etc.

[Coach44]

I agree they "should" bring back the slicks BUT they won't do it. In the mean time they should mentionned in the rules that the race will be started with NEW tires (not half slick) and once during the race NEW tires should be put on.

[paulzinho]

I'd also like to see a return to slicks and when thinking back to the re-introduction of TC then maybe its only a matter of time.

[ljakse]

Originally posted by DavyboyLT1
It looked to me like those Michelins were getting pretty worn out. When is the FIA going to create and enforce a rule on the depth of grooves required on a tire at the end of a race?

Personally, I'd like them to just go back to using proper racing tires (i.e. slicks).

There is a rule about it, but I dunno exactly what is required.

[Tristan]

Well, looking at Montoya's tyres especially, I'd deam THAT to be WAY beyond any regulation. They were BALD. That's called cheating, IMO, as is deliberately scrubbing tyres with an intention to run them slick in the race. Nothing less.

[neilap]

Michilin is really exploiting the rules arnt they. I guess as long as there is a sign that there was a goove somewhere on the tire then its legal.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by paulzinho
I'd also like to see a return to slicks and when thinking back to the re-introduction of TC then maybe its only a matter of time.

not all the time max "i like boring racing" moseley is incharge of the fia! on that note, he must have been totally disgusted at the ammount of overtaking that took place by jpm and tgf today! may i ask, fellow RACE FANS did anyone out there find the race and overtaking boring?

anyway, bring back slicks!!!!

[EERO]

Ozman, my thoughts exactly-its a rather pointless rule if its not enforced.....

[Nicholas]

I thought Bernie liked slicks...?

[Mania]

I'm pretty sure Ferrari, BAR, Jordan and Sauber will lodge an official protest over the Michelins sooner rather than later. Matchett over on Speed was whining over the lack of groove on Montoya's Williams when he pulled up at the end of the race.

I think it's a pointless rule - and the only way people will consider changing it is when the FIA disqualifies one of the Michelins teams - and the team lodges a formal complaint an appeal - seeking clarrification of the rule.

It should`nt be too far off.

[Tristan]

Action MUST be taken. Willaims and others are deliberately scrubbing their tyres with the intention of them becoming slicks.

That's "cheating" on a far greater scale than anything TGF has done the past couple of years, IMO.

Slicks WOULD resolve the problem, but the speed would be too high. Unless you cut cc's, you can't bring back slicks. The rules are fine as they are. I just wish they'd adhere to them, instead of making up rules to penalise drivers (Ie Monty).

[Cougar]

A question? How much advantage is there with the tyre wearing down to a slick when it is 'old'? and how do slick tyres go 'off'? (if they are not down to the casing) oops thats two questions...

[drexel]

This is just the other side of the 'Ferrari/FIA' conspiracy that ppl don't see. FIA will do nothing unless Michellins gain 'too much' of an advantage. All they wan't is a closely fought title race. That is why the banned Michael in 94 to even it up, and the same reason they will help them sometimes. It's also why they got no help in 96...because it was close enough between Jaques and Damon.

[Glen]

We have to bear in mind that the current tyre war is at least producing nice sticky tyres that can be raced - rather than the edgy next-to-undriveable grooved tyres up to 2000. We have overtaking now - which is surely what all those wishing for the return of slicks want.

Unfortunately I would guess that protests are inevitable if Michelin dominate Interlagos - but on the other hand, if the new Ferrari can make up some of the performance difference and we still end up with a tight race I personally don't care. It's the other Bridgestone runners who are suffering most - like Sauber for example, who must be desperate to get back to the cooler, twistier circuits.

[paulzinho]

Are Goodyear still thinking about making a return?

[djb]

For me the whole issue with this thing is that it is another wishy washy rule that is going to rely on a judgement call and, as already pointed out, will probably come to a head when a performance gain is either real or perceived.

It's just plain irresponsible to have a situation where tire wear could lead to better performance and the ensuing bitterness felt by the guys not running their tires grooves down. I have no real opinion of whether the Michelins are that much better when they are worn down, but it's just daft to have the situation like it is.

Take the plunge and make a drastic aero change and/or 500cc.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by Tristan
Action MUST be taken. Willaims and others are deliberately scrubbing their tyres with the intention of them becoming slicks.

no their not, their just getting them to the standard that the bridgestones are when they're fresh! i bet this arguement wouldn't have been made if ferrari were running michelins!

why do you think ferrari want the "1 engine per weekend rule"? it's because they hope that the williams and mclarens do their engines in whilst they scrub in their tyres!

[drexel]

! i bet this arguement wouldn't have been made if ferrari were running michelins!

If that was the case...I'm sure there'd be 5 threads a week saying Ferrari is cheating with FIA's help.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by drexel

If that was the case...I'm sure there'd be 5 threads a week saying Ferrari is cheating with FIA's help.

as opposed to only this 1 arguement saying that willaims and mclaren are cheating with the FIA's help!!

[DavyboyLT1]

The FIA's current rule regarding tire wear states that there must be "visible" grooves on the tire, when the teams are finished with them.

The Michelins were obviously borderline after the Malay GP, but were deemed OK under the current (obscure) rule.

Bridgestone has informed the FIA of their desire to have the rules clarified.

If the FIA wants to limit grip, they could create a spec. for slick tires that would have the same contact patch as the current grooved ones - just by making the tires smaller.

I think that the racing would improve (without sacrificing safety) if the FIA made the following changes:

1. Reduce aerodynamic aids by 50%
2. Return to slick tires, 50% larger than the current ones
3. Reduce engine displacement enough to compensate for #1

With more mechanical grip, and less aerodynamic grip, I believe we would see a lot more passing. With less aero. grip, cars could race close without having to contend so much with "dirty air" from the car ahead of them.

[Tristan]

Let's keep this thread to tyres. McLaren and Williams and ALL the other Michelin runners (but especially those two)are running in their tyres to be as near to slicks as they can. Fact. This isn't about Ferrari. Bridgestones don't perform as well when worn. This is about Michelin tyres, shall we say, "stretching the boundaries of what is legal". If it's legal, then fine. However, if it isn't, it's "cheating".

[kristof14]

it doesnt matter under the current rules as long as the tread depth is legal when the tyres are put on the car, scrubbibng is technically illegal as well however teams have found a loophole which allows them to use a glove with an abrasive surface to scrub the tyres!

[Spudgun]

As far as I was aware, the tyres are legal as long as grooves are visible to the naked eye, however small.. Teams will push the boundaries of legality, but it doesn't mean they are blatantly cheating.

Michelin and the teams are just making the most of an obscure rule, and besides, Bridgestone are a better tyre new than the Michelin, so it's not as if the Michelin shod cars are hurtling off into the distance. If the Michelins were at a distinct advantage for doing this, then questions should be asked, but at the moment this isn't the case.

[Coach44]

Originally posted by Spudgun
... If the Michelins were at a distinct advantage for doing this, then questions should be asked, but at the moment this isn't the case.

I'm confused... very easily done mind you but if there is no advantage in doing so (running scrubbed (almost slick)tires, why do they do it? Of course there is an advantage! The rule should be clear and state that NEW tires should be put on the car at least twice during the race or go back to slick.