Home  
Site Partners: SpotterGuides Veloce Books  
Related Sites: Your Link Here  

Go Back   TenTenths Motorsport Forum > Saloon & Sportscar Racing > Sportscar & GT Racing

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 9 Sep 2010, 14:15 (Ref:2756775)   #1
Mike_Wooshy
Veteran
 
Mike_Wooshy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
England
Birmingham
Posts: 1,677
Mike_Wooshy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMike_Wooshy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Judd LMP2 engine

According to Mulsanne Mike, Judd have announced there LMP2 engine is going to be based on a BMW 4.0 V8 I presume this is M3 engine. Intresting times ahead, wonder if this will tie with the Current GT2 and the possibly the DTM car that is supposed to be on its way.
Mike_Wooshy is offline  
__________________
The race track and the human body, both born of the earth, drive to be one with the earth, and through the earth one with the car,
drive to the undiminished dream, single moments of pleasure, an eternity of memories.
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 14:27 (Ref:2756781)   #2
Speed-King
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location:
Wuerzburg,Germany
Posts: 7,325
Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!Speed-King has a real shot at the podium!
Dinan are also suppossed to built a version of that engine for the 2011 Grand Am season for usage in both DPs and GTs.
Speed-King is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 14:31 (Ref:2756782)   #3
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 15,594
joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Wooshy View Post
According to Mulsanne Mike, Judd have announced there LMP2 engine is going to be based on a BMW 4.0 V8 I presume this is M3 engine. Intresting times ahead, wonder if this will tie with the Current GT2 and the possibly the DTM car that is supposed to be on its way.
I wonder if any teams have signed up to use the engine next season?
joeb is online now  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 14:58 (Ref:2756792)   #4
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Sodemo already showed a concept engine based on the BMW M3 engine for LMP2 in 2008. See http://www.racecar-engineering.com/a...mp2-power.html
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 17:11 (Ref:2756851)   #5
JAG
Veteran
 
JAG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
England
Posts: 10,500
JAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridJAG should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Wooshy View Post
According to Mulsanne Mike, Judd have announced there LMP2 engine is going to be based on a BMW 4.0 V8 I presume this is M3 engine. Intresting times ahead, wonder if this will tie with the Current GT2 and the possibly the DTM car that is supposed to be on its way.
I'm suprised by that choice, unless Judd are aware BMW will not make the GT2 engine available to P2 teams.
JAG is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 18:16 (Ref:2756896)   #6
Mike_Wooshy
Veteran
 
Mike_Wooshy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
England
Birmingham
Posts: 1,677
Mike_Wooshy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridMike_Wooshy should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
We have seen this card played before with Judd and the Cossie DFV. So in ways I dont see this as a bad thing as such just broadens the market place.
Mike_Wooshy is offline  
__________________
The race track and the human body, both born of the earth, drive to be one with the earth, and through the earth one with the car,
drive to the undiminished dream, single moments of pleasure, an eternity of memories.
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 18:35 (Ref:2756904)   #7
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG View Post
I'm suprised by that choice, unless Judd are aware BMW will not make the GT2 engine available to P2 teams.
In http://www.lola-group.com/newsstory.asp?NewsId=260 Lola lists a number of possible engines for the LMP2 2011 car:
Quote:
In alphabetical order
  • BMW V8
  • Ford 2.0litre turbo
  • HPD V6 turbo
  • Jaguar V8 N/A
  • Judd V8 N/A
  • Nissan V8 N/A
  • Toyota V8 N/A
That suggests there will at least be 2 engines based on a production BMW engine.
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 18:37 (Ref:2756906)   #8
joeb
Race Official
Veteran
 
joeb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
United States
Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 15,594
joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!joeb is the undisputed Champion of the World!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
In http://www.lola-group.com/newsstory.asp?NewsId=260 Lola lists a number of possible engines for the LMP2 2011 car:
That suggests there will at least be 2 engines based on a production BMW engine.
Any word on the Toyota engine?
joeb is online now  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 18:42 (Ref:2756909)   #9
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
No clue. Nissan = IES and Ford = Roush Yates (although they also mentioned 3.5 V6 EcoBoost Turbo as starting point).
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 9 Sep 2010, 19:00 (Ref:2756920)   #10
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
there is now a brief feature on DSC and a nice piccy - certainly does look sweet, it will be on display in the silverstone paddock......I'm sure they will sign many customers.......some of the mounts are in the same position as the existing 3.4 V8 LMP2 motor in order to keep fitment simple and cost effective..........will be interesting to see how it performs.....I wonder if they have pulled a similar trick to IES via using a much lighter flat-plane crank and internal weights similar to the Ferrari engine.......or if they stuck to the cross-plane crank nature of the standard BMW V8......I'm sure once we hear it run it will be obvious........ooooh excitement!!!!
knighty is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Sep 2010, 07:23 (Ref:2757148)   #11
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
FYI official press release and high resolution picture
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 10 Sep 2010, 08:27 (Ref:2757173)   #12
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
here is a nice bit of info on the base engine:

http://www.zimbio.com/Look+at+BMWs+M...gine+In+Detail

The more I look at it the more I can see Judds logic for using this engine, basically the throttle bodies can be carried over, externally all they have done is add the trumpets........cost wise this is really significant, on the Nissan IES V8 these parts (throttle bodies & manifolds) are bespoke parts = more cost.......internally I'm sure Judd have used bespoke valves, pistons, rods & crank.

One thing that worries me about this BMW engine is the cylinder bores - from my personal experience of BMW V8's, the alu-sil bores are very prone to scuffing on a race motor, the pistons basically run directly on the on acid-etched aluminium, whereby the silicone sits proud........its OK for a production engine, but once you tune it we found you had no choice but to nikasil coat the bores, at a cost of several thousand pounds........which is not the end of the world, but its certainly needs to be done.

Judd seem to be getting excited by its low weight but dont actually quote a number.........for reference the IES Nissan is "less than 150Kg".......but does it really matter now that LMP2 cars are going to be so much heavier.......I guess it allows a team to play with ballast placement.........just noticed the Sodemo lump is 140Kg.......so it looks like both the Nissan and BMW are comparable weight wise.

Last edited by knighty; 10 Sep 2010 at 08:40.
knighty is offline  
Quote
Old 11 Sep 2010, 15:14 (Ref:2757710)   #13
betablocker
Rookie
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
England
London
Posts: 28
betablocker should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
what ill be interested in is the height and the length of the engine. from what ive seen the standard engine is big. length and height.

weve seen the libre nissan having to have a much higher engine cover to accomodate it so ill be amazed by what other teams using say a zytec chassis or lola come up with.

i think libre get away with length because of their short transverse gearbox most teams use a longitudinal gearbox soooo possibly longer wheel base cars next year for lmp2????
betablocker is offline  
Quote
Old 12 Sep 2010, 22:19 (Ref:2758410)   #14
Jaguarman1
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
England
Warwickshire
Posts: 40
Jaguarman1 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_Wooshy View Post
We have seen this card played before with Judd and the Cossie DFV. So in ways I dont see this as a bad thing as such just broadens the market place.
Not quite the same. Engine Developments were contracted by Cosworth to build the DFV, along with other companies such as Nicholson McLaren and Hart.
They then designed their own 90deg CV (which found it's way to Williams, Brabham, Ligier and Lotus among others) and this engine was part of a family based to take on the DFV after familiarising themselves with the Cosworth. From there they built the EV and then the V10 GV.
I have very fond memories of working there 89-92 and still look out for their fortunes.
Jaguarman1 is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Jan 2011, 11:27 (Ref:2820781)   #15
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
shock horror - DSC is reporting that the Judd-HK LMP2 is 3.6 litres!!!.......this would suggest Judd are chasing a big bore small stroke high revving engine, therefore a high power number, considering this engine is going to be used mostly in the long fast LMS circuits, I think this might not be such a bad idea.........I dont expect the torque will be anywherenear comparable to the 4.5L NISMO engine, but I dont expect the NISMO engine will be able to rev anywherenear as high as the HK engine, therefore not as powerful........it will be interesting to see how they both perform/compare.........I suspect the HK is the engine for big fast circuits, but the NISMO will be better for tight twisty circuits.......hey-ho, lets wait and see.
knighty is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Jan 2011, 12:03 (Ref:2820798)   #16
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!
Quote:
Originally Posted by knighty View Post
I dont expect the torque will be anywherenear comparable to the 4.5L NISMO engine, but I dont expect the NISMO engine will be able to rev anywherenear as high as the HK engine, therefore not as powerful.
According to http://www.lemans.org/en/news/First-...o-V8_2748.html the NISMO 4.5 V8 produces 580 Nm. That is quite a lot for a normally aspired engine.

We will see an interesting mix of engines in LMP2 this year: torquey HPD 2.8 V6 turbo vs screaming Judd 3.6 V8 vs Nismo 4.5 V8.
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Old 26 Jan 2011, 12:28 (Ref:2820808)   #17
Tim the Grey
Veteran
 
Tim the Grey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Wales
Across the M40 from Gaydon...
Posts: 3,834
Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!Tim the Grey has a real shot at the championship!
That's the way I like it. Various ways to achieve the same ends!
Tim the Grey is offline  
__________________
Tim Yorath
Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch
Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"...
Quote
Old 26 Jan 2011, 15:05 (Ref:2820877)   #18
knighty
Veteran
 
knighty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
England
Essex
Posts: 1,406
knighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridknighty should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwyllion View Post
According to http://www.lemans.org/en/news/First-...o-V8_2748.html the NISMO 4.5 V8 produces 580 Nm. That is quite a lot for a normally aspired engine.

We will see an interesting mix of engines in LMP2 this year: torquey HPD 2.8 V6 turbo vs screaming Judd 3.6 V8 vs Nismo 4.5 V8.
Hey Gwyllion - another excellent find!!! - yes 580 NM is a good number, not sure I believe the 450bhp figure when I know the 4.0 IES version already makes 490bhp!!!.........anyway, a few years back Peter Elleray was a member of the forum he said that in his Bentley LeMans days, via much track simulation, they deduced that engine torque was of paramount importance, more so than outright power, as the LeMans circuit is basically about 6 huge acelleration zones.......hence the Bentley turbo engine was pushing just less than 600bhp (nut much in its day), but had well over 800NM of torque........this seems to be where the Diesels perform well too - acelleration.........sounds like the NISMO engine is not so bad in that case.
knighty is offline  
Quote
Old 28 Jan 2011, 19:57 (Ref:2821977)   #19
Tim Northcutt
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
United States
Indianapolis
Posts: 9,215
Tim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the gridTim Northcutt should be qualifying in the top 3 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeb View Post
Any word on the Toyota engine?
I'm assuming that the Toyota P2 engine would probably be the one that was badged as a Lexus that Ganassi used in their DPs for years in Grand Am
Tim Northcutt is offline  
__________________
Finally...

One American Open Wheel Series!
Quote
Old 3 Feb 2011, 22:21 (Ref:2825397)   #20
gwyllion
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Belgium
Posts: 8,738
gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!gwyllion is going for a new world record!

The engine sounds very nice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZmnZxZty4c This also confirms the 3.6 liter displacement.
gwyllion is offline  
Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New LMP2 engine - and (more) rule changes ss_collins Sportscar & GT Racing 42 4 Oct 2008 14:49
Ferrari LMP2 engine? FIRE Sportscar & GT Racing 17 18 Oct 2007 08:22
New Judd engine for LMP1/what about LMP2? Bentley03 Sportscar & GT Racing 20 14 Jul 2006 12:04
LMP2 engine changes? (merged) JAG Sportscar & GT Racing 31 20 Jun 2006 10:20
New Luchini LMP2, including new Cv0 LMP2 (merged threads) veeten Sportscar & GT Racing 66 3 Sep 2004 05:27


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:58.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Original Website Copyright © 1998-2003 Craig Antil. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2004-2021 Royalridge Computing. All Rights Reserved.
Ten-Tenths Motorsport Forums Copyright © 2021-2022 Grant MacDonald. All Rights Reserved.