Moto GP, Round 17 - Estoril - Page 2

chunder · 1 Nov 2010, 17:41 (Ref:2783563)

He is very good and there a scores of Brits in the Red Bull series that are itching to move up, very good series for that. quite a few young Americans aswell.

djb · 2 Nov 2010, 04:59 (Ref:2783862)

boy that moto2 race was fun, gotta hand it to that Turk the way he put his slower bike in just the right spot of the apex's at teh end, backing it end and doing a fantastic job, wasnt nasty about it, just a hell of a racer.

moto2, man what a season huh??????????

chunder · 2 Nov 2010, 10:48 (Ref:2783957)

This is why I dont umderstandLavertys move or Crutchlows for that matter!

I know the pay is perhaps more for a tope line WSBK ride or definately a GP ride, but these guys are both superb on a WSS bike, just like Kenan/.

Laverty would be a shoe in for the title next year on a Motot 2 bike, and then be in the same paddock as the team bosses!

jhansen · 2 Nov 2010, 14:40 (Ref:2784051)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunder

This is why I dont umderstandLavertys move or Crutchlows for that matter!

I know the pay is perhaps more for a tope line WSBK ride or definately a GP ride, but these guys are both superb on a WSS bike, just like Kenan/.

Laverty would be a shoe in for the title next year on a Motot 2 bike, and then be in the same paddock as the team bosses!

Couldn't agree more.

**ghinzani** · 2 Nov 2010, 18:33 (Ref:2784122)

To slightly counter that tho - Superglue was rubbish on a WSB in 2008, surely the Moto GP boss's will recall that even if he cleans up in Moto2 next year? Its not like the Moto GP bike he will find from 2012 onwards will be much different to a WSB, and he's proved he cant master the big bike. Ok if you want results in Moto2 but I cant see him repeating it in the top class on past form.

chunder · 2 Nov 2010, 19:14 (Ref:2784142)

The thing is Ginz, an 800 is far more similar to a 250/WSSS bike than a 990.

Kenan was utterly useless on a Superbiek as quite a lot of guys brought up on WSS have been. Charpentier, Chambon, Foret, Fujiwara, Muggeridge, Karl Harris, john Crawford, to some extent Steve Plater.

I am not sure why but some guys justc ant transfer the same speed to a bigger, heavier bike.

A GP bike weighs about the same, is utterly based around the same corner speed principle that a 250/125/WSS bike is too.

Hence why guys like Rossi, Capirossi et al cant use the same inherent ability they had in spinning the rear better than others on an 800.

Guys like Lorenzo, Bautista, Simoncelli and Pedrosa (though his style has changed immeasurably) can now ride a GP bike like a 250.

Whereas in the old days a Biaggi, Kocinski, Cadalora would win 2 or 3 races a year by eons and be 6th or worse everywhere else despite being 250 unbeatable.

Jacques never did much on a 500, neither did Nakano, yet Abe was good coz he was on one from 17?

One of the few to convert well was Okada. Gibernau didnt ride 250's for years etc etc

**ghinzani** · 2 Nov 2010, 19:41 (Ref:2784160)

All good stuff Chunder, my point was more like by the time he gets to Moto GP the 800s will have gone and he will be back wrestling a 1000 so I guess we agree. I'm happy for him to prove otherwise though.

Also re the Abe comparison - best thing Suzuki or Tech 3 could have done is got Marques on a 2nd or Colins bike next season respectively - Im sure he would adapt in a season, go well the 2nd season and be a contender in the third.

BTW didnt Leon ride a 500 or Moto GP at 17? Straight off an Italjet 125?

jhansen · 2 Nov 2010, 19:51 (Ref:2784165)

The thing about a GP bike, be it 500, 800 or 990; they have a prototype frame that is far stiffer than any production built frame used in WSBK. Horsepower aside, a GP bike will still require a different style. And I could argue that even with going back to 1000cc bikes, we will never see riding styles like the 500 or 990 days. Not unless we chuck electronics completely. Even dumbed down electronics in 2012 may be superior to that of circa 2006.

Sofuoglu will gain experience on a prototype frame while also experiencing the GP tracks and schedule, and all in front of GP teams. That can't hurt him. And what's his alternative, risking another superbike move? That would be daft.

**ghinzani** · 2 Nov 2010, 19:56 (Ref:2784168)

He shall be crowned the all time king of 600, winning Moto2 and SS championships aplenty, like a two wheeled version of FF driver Dave Coyne. Minus the Del Boy sheepskin.

chunder · 2 Nov 2010, 20:02 (Ref:2784171)

The electronics thing is the main reason for the changes in riding style

No way could Casey ride a 500 or 990 like he rides that Ducati. He would get away with it a but but never all the time. The electronics have govered the way the bikes are built. Before that they were looking for flex and easier riding, now its all about stifness to cope with the insane lean angles.

Leon rode for the awful Shell Advance team yes, he started on a v-twin 500 scoring points first time out in Suzuka and getting on national radio.

Then when Chris Walker (who was on the NSR V4) was booted out for crashing, Leon went on to that bike and did exactly the same pretty much.

Was a really badly run team with awful bikes and people who wouldn't let the guys do what they wanted setup wise, much like Italjet who would spend all day on Hules bike leaving Leon with rich jetting. Nice

As for Kenan, I would like to see him do well, but he is over aggressive, remember the early WSS days and WSTCK when he would hit people to pas them!

**ghinzani** · 2 Nov 2010, 20:23 (Ref:2784184)

Oh yes Superglues like Ian Curtis dancing on a bike.

djb · 3 Nov 2010, 04:57 (Ref:2784289)

well, all I can say, as the commentators did, the fellow has hardly any time on the bike, let alone in the dry, and does a hell of a good job, even at the end. And as I said, at the end he was being smart, not a jackass, so my hat off to him.

he needs a setup wizard but I cant wait to see how teh last race goes for him.

who is Ian Curtis btw?

chunder · 3 Nov 2010, 08:05 (Ref:2784320)

Lol, nice one Ghinz!! Curtis is one of those peopel like Kurt Cobain, Jimi Hendrix, Jim Morrison far more famous coz they are dead!

I am not taking anything away from Kenan. But this type of thing happens a lot. People step up from a different series and eneter at a great pace.
Remember Whitham turning up at Donington on a Yamaha from WSBK and winning a WSS race without any testing?

The wold cars who have won in WSBK? If you are god you are good and can win if conditions are right. Kenan was riding Tomizawa's bike remember sp was on good kit, had a god tea behind him and also took full advantage of the mixed conditions.

Guys liek Baldolini, Mareno etal have never been up front and were here, just due to conditions.

I rate Kenan highly, but just dont start saying he can win championships in Moto2 yet

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