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Old 20 Aug 2020, 22:36 (Ref:3996763)   #2376
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I know what you mean. I’m up for it as a one off. Bring on the variety. Worth a go, it might go down well and we see something we like.

What’s the shortest non Monaco we’ve had? Donington was 2.5 miles, but I suspect there has been shorter.
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Old 20 Aug 2020, 22:58 (Ref:3996769)   #2377
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I know what you mean. I’m up for it as a one off. Bring on the variety. Worth a go, it might go down well and we see something we like.

What’s the shortest non Monaco we’ve had? Donington was 2.5 miles, but I suspect there has been shorter.
Yeah, I thought of Donington too!

Dijon wss a bit shorter as was Jarama i think?
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 13:04 (Ref:3996851)   #2378
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An F1 race on Bahrain’s “almost oval” Outer Circuit is a smart idea

Using the Outer Circuit is an idea RaceFans readers enthusiastically approved when we polled about it a few years ago. Consider what an F1 race on it might look like and it’s not hard to see why the idea was so popular.
As is clear from the layout, this would be a very fast lap, potentially on a par with Monza. The Italian circuit has held the record for Formula 1’s highest average lap speed for years – perhaps Bahrain’s Outer Circuit could topple it?

The race would have the highest lap count of any on the current calendar – 87 laps would be needed to hit the minimum race distance of 305 kilometres.

Would these changes make for a great race or a bad race? That’s not the point. The point is it would make for a different race. Different from the other race held a week earlier at the same track, and different from F1’s other races generally held on much slower circuits.

Experimenting with an oddball track layout is a good idea to begin with.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/06/12/...-a-smart-idea/
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 13:27 (Ref:3996860)   #2379
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If the lap takes less than a minute, then it’s not going to get off the ground unfortunately
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 13:32 (Ref:3996863)   #2380
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If the lap takes less than a minute, then it’s not going to get off the ground unfortunately
Why not?
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 14:15 (Ref:3996870)   #2381
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Would these changes make for a great race or a bad race? That’s not the point. The point is it would make for a different race. Different from the other race held a week earlier at the same track, and different from F1’s other races generally held on much slower circuits.

Experimenting with an oddball track layout is a good idea to begin with.

https://www.racefans.net/2020/06/12/...-a-smart-idea/
thats a good point and totally agree! even a race at the best track in the world can be boring. variety is what is needed particularity for these backs to backs at the same venue.

hopefully they opt for a different compound selection as well.
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 14:30 (Ref:3996873)   #2382
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Why not?

Because the FIA have a minimum length for a circuit, so that it won’t take less than a minute, which is understandable. If it takes less than a minute a lap, the lapped traffic would be heavy
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 14:57 (Ref:3996879)   #2383
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Because the FIA have a minimum length for a circuit, so that it won’t take less than a minute, which is understandable. If it takes less than a minute a lap, the lapped traffic would be heavy
Where is a reference to time included in the FIA criteria?

Appendix O includes the following:

The maximum permitted length for straight sections of track is 2 km.
If the circuit is intended for FIA Championship, Trophy or Cup competitions, the length should be calculated to satisfy the minima stipulated in Supplement 2. [3.5km for F1].
It is recommended that the length of any new circuit should not exceed 7 km.
The width of the starting grid should be at least 15 m
The track width foreseen should be at least 12 m

I am unable to find any reference to a 1 minute lap time......
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 15:21 (Ref:3996884)   #2384
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Because the FIA have a minimum length for a circuit, so that it won’t take less than a minute, which is understandable. If it takes less than a minute a lap, the lapped traffic would be heavy
The Outer circuit layout is 2.277 miles / 3.664 km and if the minimum length stipulated in Supplement 2 is 3.5km for F1, then the Outer Circuit complies with that.
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 16:24 (Ref:3996896)   #2385
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I'm definitely up for something new, and if it's 90+ sub 1 minute laps, why not?
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 16:56 (Ref:3996900)   #2386
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Even if there is a minimum limit, why not ignore it this year. It’s not like a technical requirement like car width. It should be viewed as a guideline.
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 20:43 (Ref:3996933)   #2387
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I know what you mean. I’m up for it as a one off. Bring on the variety. Worth a go, it might go down well and we see something we like.

What’s the shortest non Monaco we’ve had? Donington was 2.5 miles, but I suspect there has been shorter.
Taken from the current MSV web site, the Donington Park GP circuit is 2.487 miles, but Brands Hatch is shorter at 2.433 miles for the current layout which isn't that much different from when it was on the F1 calendar.
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 20:52 (Ref:3996938)   #2388
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Thanks. It may just be rounding, but I seem to remember it was important, presumably for people who felt it important to follow strict rules for these things, that the Melbourne loop made Donington spot on 2.5miles back in ‘93.

The chicane has moved at Donington since then and that might have made a small difference.

I wonder if it actually was important.

I’d always assumed that Brands GP was longer than Donington, it felt it.
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 22:06 (Ref:3996953)   #2389
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Thanks. It may just be rounding, but I seem to remember it was important, presumably for people who felt it important to follow strict rules for these things, that the Melbourne loop made Donington spot on 2.5miles back in ‘93.

The chicane has moved at Donington since then and that might have made a small difference.

I wonder if it actually was important.

I’d always assumed that Brands GP was longer than Donington, it felt it.
I was pleasantly surprised to find out the method of measuring a track distance.

A person pushes one of those measuring wheel things round the white line on the "inside". They then do the "outside". The two distances are added together and the result halved. Simple.

A change in a kerb radius, even a small one, can affect the overall measured circuit length.

At Donington though the change to the right hand Robert's Chicane was moving the turn in point back to match that of the left hand Fogarty's. If the length of the full circuit changed it was down to changes in the kerbs around the entire track.
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Old 21 Aug 2020, 22:50 (Ref:3996961)   #2390
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Ah, so the chicane was moved on the short circuit, but not the GP one. I never really twigged.
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Old 22 Aug 2020, 01:27 (Ref:3996979)   #2391
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Video: A simulated lap of Bahrain GP's 'oval' F1 track

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...-oval-f1-track
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Old 22 Aug 2020, 08:44 (Ref:3997009)   #2392
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Ah, so the chicane was moved on the short circuit, but not the GP one. I never really twigged.
They did slightly change Foggy's by opening up the right hander, thus making it a little faster
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Old 22 Aug 2020, 09:01 (Ref:3997016)   #2393
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They did slightly change Foggy's by opening up the right hander, thus making it a little faster
No, they did not. The right hand turn at the Esses, now called Robert's, was moved back so the track now "splits" evenly on both right and left. The right hander used to be about 50-75m further on & was a bit tighter.

This was done to prevent vehicles - trucks especially - having the opportunity to go head on into the wall under the Goddard's hospitality suites. It also made a large tarmac "escape road" which limits racers ending up in the gravel either side, although they obviously still manage that from time to time (I've pushed enough of them out!).

One side effect of that is that entry speed to Redgate went up somewhat which slightly reduced the effect of the cutback wide line in, making overtaking there a bit harder than it was - it was always a ballsy move before, anyway.

If you use Google Earth's timeline feature you can easily flick between the two layouts and compare.
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Old 22 Aug 2020, 10:03 (Ref:3997025)   #2394
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Donington: before and after.
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Old 22 Aug 2020, 14:21 (Ref:3997049)   #2395
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Donington: before and after.
That second photo still makes me wince. The destruction of the infield was bloody awful.

It's 100% better now, the place looks brilliant.
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Old 22 Aug 2020, 15:34 (Ref:3997069)   #2396
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Yeah, it took a while, but thankfully you can view from the infield again now, IMHO one of the best spectator viewing spots on a UK circuit, if not the best
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 12:51 (Ref:3997845)   #2397
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Turkey is officially back on the menu, I mean the 2020 F1 GP calendar. It will be interesting to see if the race remains on it for next season. As Tilkedromes go, I thought it was by far the best but the spectator attendance was poor.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f...paign=widget-1
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 14:04 (Ref:3997876)   #2398
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I attended the first race in 2005. It was interesting to note the "newness". The view from the top of the main stand was pretty good.
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 14:22 (Ref:3997880)   #2399
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its a good venue. been a long time, they run counter clockwise there?

obviously we dont know if all the races will go ahead, but nonetheless, i am super impressed they have the possible total up to 17 when just a couple of months ago it looked like a season might not even happen.

only a small handful of positives with no serious outcomes (as far as i know).
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Old 25 Aug 2020, 14:28 (Ref:3997883)   #2400
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So now we have a full calendar. Good to have Turkey back. A modern classic, that lost part of the appeal by a lack of crowd, but that won’t be a problem this time.

Just a shame after all those interesting circuits we have to finish with two GPs at the underwhelming Bahrain and then the finale at the even blander Abu Dhabi
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