[Official] Top Drivers of the 2000s Super-Poll

[jab]

Just picking a straight top 10 from the whole decade is a bit flawed, since the tendency is to have a bias towards drivers and performances in more recent seasons – see Tony Dodgins’ recent top 10 for the decade on Autosport, in which he includes Kubica but not Coulthard and Barrichello. Thus, I have worked out a fairer method for compiling a ranked order for the 2000s - by compiling top 10s for each year and then totalling and averaging the results

So here's the idea:

- Post your top 10s for each year of the 2000s - I know it sounds a bit long-winded but this will work

- These are then converted into points - 10 points for 1st, 9 for 2nd, down to 1 for 10th for each year

- The scores are then totalled, and then averaged for each driver by the number of seasons they raced in - a season only counts if the driver started 5 or more races, so Kubica in 2006 counts as he started 6 but Villeneuve in 2004 doesn't count as he only started 3. You cannot include a driver in a list if he didn't start 5 or more races, as that would be silly

- The standings are then sorted by the average score rather than the total. This is done to prevent bias towards those drivers who have been around for most/all of the decade (i.e. Barrichello, Fisichella, Trulli, Coulthard etc) and against those who have only been around a couple of years (i.e. Hamilton, Vettel, Kubica etc)

Advice:
- You have to do all 10 years. Otherwise it'll be biased towards whichever years you did because the scores are totalled

- If you don't know much about the year, don't cheat - if it's similar to the championship standings, that's OK, but don't just copy them

- You don't have to justify each and every selection if you don't want to. As long as you make the lists reasonable, there should be no problem

- You can either rank on outright performance (that is regardless of machinery - for instance, putting Webber on top in 2002 despite the fact that he was driving a Minardi) or significance (that is generally ranking the drivers in the best cars towards the head of the list)

Hopefully this will lead to a relatively unbiased final list that we can all accept - it should because everything should average out. I don't expect too many surprises at the top end of the standings - it'll almost certainly be Michael, followed by a combination of Alonso, Raikkonen and Hamilton. But it's the positions after that I'm most interested in - I was surprised when I did this for my own overall top 10 to see how it came out, and I think others will be surprised too

--------------------

For the record, my top 10s are

2000
1) M Schumacher
2) Hakkinen
3) Coulthard
4) R Schumacher
5) Villeneuve
6) Barrichello
7) Button
8) Fisichella
9) Salo
10) Frentzen

Michael was the most consistent driver through the whole season, apart from his mid-season falter which partly wasn't his fault. The McLaren drivers were much of a muchness. Ralf and Villeneuve were best of the rest, both comfortably beating team mates. Rubens was a bit average but there was that win. Button was good for a rookie. Fisi scored a few podiums but was inconsistent. Salo easily beat Diniz at Sauber, and Frentzen beat Trulli but was a bit mediocre compared to 99

2001
1) M Schumacher
2) Coulthard
3) R Schumacher
4) Montoya
5) Barrichello
6) Raikkonen
7) Heidfeld
8) Villeneuve
9) Hakkinen
10) Alesi

With Michael easily the best, DC was probably next up after a few decent wins - Brazil stands out. This was Ralf's breakthrough year, and I think it was overlooked in favour of Montoya's first year. Rubens didn't win a race but was consistent. Raikkonen had a great first year, just edging Heidfeld on account of the fact that he was so inexperienced. Villeneuve was decent again, Hakkinen was clearly heading downhill, and Alesi had some great performances for Prost before doing well at Jordan

2002
1) M Schumacher
2) Barrichello
3) Montoya
4) Coulthard
5) Raikkonen
6) R Schumacher
7) Button
8) Fisichella
9) Heidfeld
10) Webber

Ferrari dominated everything. Montoya was the next best man, although he didn't win a race. DC just edges Raikkonen because he took his opportunity to win whilst Kimi didn't. Ralf still did a decent job. Button had a better year for Renault, beating the more experienced Trulli. Fisi was consistent for Jordan, Heidfeld was consistent again, and Webber starred on a couple of occasions in the Minardi

2003
1) M Schumacher
2) Raikkonen
3) Montoya
4) Alonso
5) Barrichello
6) Webber
7) R Schumacher
8) Button
9) Trulli
10) Fisichella

Michael won the most races and would've been further ahead but for the points system so he deserves top spot. Kimi ran him close and deserved more wins, whilst Montoya was the best driver in the second half of the season. Alonso did well on his return. Rubens had a good year. Webber again punched above his weight. Button drove Villeneuve out at BAR as they headed upwards. Trulli got beaten comfortably by his young team mate but still deserves a top 10 spot, whilst Fisi gets in because of Brazil

2004
1) M Schumacher
2) Button
3) Raikkonen
4) Barrichello
5) Montoya
6) Fisichella
7) Alonso
8) Trulli
9) Sato
10) Heidfeld

Button was probably the most consistent driver out there behind Michael so deserves to slot in behind. Raikkonen was hideously unlucky for a lot of the year and deserved more. Rubens had another good year but still couldn't really get close to Michael. Montoya won a race and was consistent. Fisi was superb for Sauber. Alonso had a more disappointing year and for a lot of it was behind Trulli, although I've put him behind because of the second half of the year. Sato was a bit unlucky at times too, and Heidfeld was underdog of the year with 2 points finishes for Jordan

2005
1) Alonso
2) Raikkonen
3) Montoya
4) M Schumacher
5) Trulli
6) Coulthard
7) Webber
8) Heidfeld
9) Barrichello
10) Button

The debate over the top 2 will rage on forever so I'm not going into that. I've put JPM ahead of Michael because despite a couple of mistakes, Montoya won a few races and was unlucky at other times. Trulli was excellent early on for Toyota (I feel harsh for leaving Ralf out, though). DC was back to his best. Webber is ahead of Heidfeld mainly due to the fact that Mark lost a good result in Malaysia because of Fisi which Nick then inherited - otherwise, Mark was top dog in the team. Rubens had a decent year but again still couldn't take it to Michael, whilst Button recovered well in the second half of the year

2006
1) Alonso
2) M Schumacher
3) Massa
4) Raikkonen
5) Button
6) Webber
7) Heidfeld
8) Barrichello
9) Fisichella
10) Kubica

Alonso just edges this one because the FIA were trying to engineer the title. Massa had an impressive year and showed how much he'd improved. Raikkonen was the best non-winner again. Button did win and was the form man of the second half. Webber was greatly hindered by unreliability and lost loads of decent results. Heidfeld was consistent, Rubens was OK, Fisi was a bit rubbish but still gets in because he won a race, and Kubica was the find of the season

2007
1) Hamilton
2) Raikkonen
3) Alonso
4) Massa
5) Heidfeld
6) Webber
7) Kovalainen
8) Rosberg
9) Kubica
10) Sato

Lewis was an electrical glitch from the title and saw off the reigning champion, so I'm putting him just above Raikkonen who was asleep for the first half of the year. Alonso faded into the background when it mattered and his Fuji crash cost him. Massa was better than was recognised at the time. Then it's the usual candidates - consistent Heidfeld and unlucky Webber - followed by improving rookie Heikki, Rosberg who saw off Wurz comfortably, Kubica who had a tough but OK second year, and Sato for the giant-killing in the first half of the season

2008
1) Kubica
2) Alonso
3) Hamilton
4) Massa
5) Vettel
6) Trulli
7) Webber
8) Glock
9) Heidfeld
10) Raikkonen

Kubica ends on top as he was the man most accepted as the most consistent that year. Alonso came back strong in the second half. Lewis won the title despite a few hiccups, whilst Massa lost it because of a few hiccups. Vettel and Webber led the RBT charge whilst Trulli and Glock benefited from a Toyota resurgence. Heidfeld was again consistent but was slow in qualifying, whilst Raikkonen only gets in (and added on to the original list I did last year) because he won 2 races - the rest was poor, but it would be unfair to leave out a 2-time race winner (which should've been at least 3 but for the problems in France)

2009
1) Vettel
2) Webber
3) Hamilton
4) Button
5) Barrichello
6) Alonso
7) Rosberg
8) Massa
9) Raikkonen
10) Glock

This being the most recent season, it should be self-explanatory. I've gone for the Red Bull drivers ahead of the Brawns as they were generally more consistent through the season, where as Button dipped in the second half and Barrichello was average in the first half. Lewis is sandwiched in between

I did these by looking at various stats and rankings made at the time, mainly by looking at the Atlas top 10s for each year. I don't really remember enough of the first half of the decade, particularly the Schumacher years when I didn't watch much, to make as definitive a judgement as the later years, so I'm sure those who have been fully concentrating on F1 the last 10 years can do better

[Marbot]

hmmmm....will have to think about this a bit.

Oh, and wasn't Button 'consistently' in the points in 09? Scored points (or a point) in every race except one. Something you must be able to do when the competition is close.

Great idea though Jab.

[jab]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Oh, and wasn't Button 'consistently' in the points in 09? Scored points (or a point) in every race except one. Something you must be able to do when the competition is close.

Yes but when you're consistently scoring less points than the opposition, it doesn't really help. What was lucky for Button is that that opposition was 3 strong and took points off each other

But there we are. If we all agreed, I wouldn't be posting this thread. To compensate, I feel I've been generous towards Jenson with some of my other ratings so it all balances out

[Chiefy]

I'll have a go at this...

2000
01 M Schumacher
02 M Hakkinen
03 R Barrichello
04 D Coulthard
05 R Schumacher
06 G Fisichella
07 J Button
08 J Verstappen
09 J Villeneuve
10 H Frentzen

It would be hard to argue against Michael Schumacher as the best overall, so I won't. On, theoretically, an even footing, Coulthard didn't get too close to Hakkinen, so Barrichello, who would become Schumacher's "lapdog", gets the nod for third place. Button had a good first season and Verstappen put in some very spirited drives for Arrows.

2001
01 M Schumacher
02 D Coulthard
03 R Schumacher
04 R Barrichello
05 M Hakkinen
06 N Heidfeld
07 K Raikkonen
08 J Verstappen
09 J Alesi
10 J Trulli

Coulthard took the fight to Schumacher as well as ever he had before. Ralf Schumacher's victories see him riding high in my rankings. Heidfeld settled nicely at Sauber and scored numerous points, while newcomer team-mate Raikkonen excited fans the world over. More top stuff from Verstappen, particularly in Malaysia. Alesi finished almost every race in the championship.

2002
01 R Barrichello
02 R Schumacher
03 D Coulthard
04 J Montoya
05 M Schumacher
06 K Raikkonen
07 J Button
08 N Heidfeld
09 H Frentzen
10 J Trulli

Michael Schumacher walked all over everyone, including team-mate Barrichello in the least sporting of ways. Barrichello could probably have run him closer had circumstances been different. For putting such a black mark against his name and alienating those tired of his monopoly, I have dropped his ranking. Heidfeld was solid and Frentzen impressed.

2003
01 K Raikkonen
02 M Schumacher
03 J Montoya
04 R Barrichello
05 R Schumacher
06 F Alonso
07 M Webber
08 J Button
09 C da Matta
10 H Frentzen

So close was Raikkonen to Schumacher, albeit with a less reliable car, that I cannot fail to give him top spot. Montoya was good value, as was Alonso. Webber's second season in F1 went well. No Coulthard or Trulli, perhaps surprisingly. But Frentzen was good for Sauber and da Matta, when you look at it, had a very good debut year against Olivier Panis.

2004
01 M Schumacher
02 R Barrichello
03 J Button
04 F Alonso
05 J Trulli
06 J Montoya
07 T Sato
08 R Schumacher
09 K Raikkonen
10 G Fisichella

The top two were superior this year. Button was, quite obviously, best of the rest. Alonso outdid Trulli but his sacking was perhaps unjustified, so he holds a reasonable position in the rankings here. Sato's best year puts him in seventh. Despite missing several races Ralf Schumacher did very well, while Fisichella was comfortably better than Massa at Sauber.

2005
01 F Alonso
02 K Raikkonen
03 J Montoya
04 M Schumacher
05 R Schumacher
06 J Trulli
07 G Fisichella
08 T Monteiro
09 J Button
10 M Webber

Alonso's championship win broke Schumacher's title monopoly and Raikkonen and Montoya both impressed mightily. Ralf Schumacher defeated new team-mate Jarno Trulli. In a better car Fisichella was far from glory. Monteiro only retired from one race all year and could have performed very well in a better car, if only he'd had the chance.

2006
01 F Alonso
02 M Schumacher
03 F Massa
04 K Raikkonen
05 G Fisichella
06 J Button
07 R Barrichello
08 N Heidfeld
09 P de la Rosa
10 R Kubica

Michael Schumacher put in some great drives in his final season while Massa came on leaps and bounds. Fisichella did a good job but was uninspiring and the likes of Button, on skill, ran him close. Barrichello retired fewer times than Jenson so merits his place nearby. Heidfeld crushed Villeneuve, de la Rosa made us all smile and Kubica stormed onto the scene.

2007
01 K Raikkonen
02 L Hamilton
03 F Alonso
04 N Heidfeld
05 F Massa
06 R Kubica
07 S Vettel
08 H Kovalainen
09 D Coulthard
10 A Wurz

Raikkonen's title was deserved for his great end-of-season drives and many wins. Hamilton was impressive, and is placed one ahead of Alonso. Heidfeld was exceptional at the start of the year and broke the McLaren/Ferrari dominance of the early races. Vettel was an exciting newcomer while Kovalainen finished consistently and Wurz nailed some big results.

2008
01 L Hamilton
02 F Massa
03 R Kubica
04 N Heidfeld
05 K Raikkonen
06 F Alonso
07 S Vettel
08 R Barrichello
09 T Glock
10 J Trulli

Hamilton took a lot of penalties during the year but still managed to win the title in some style. Kubica was incredibly good but robbed of a shot by his own team. Heidfeld, it must be remembered, was still in with a chance with just three rounds remaining. Vettel won a race and Barrichello outstripped Button convincingly. Glock and Trulli impressed at times.

2009
01 J Button
02 S Vettel
03 R Barrichello
04 L Hamilton
05 M Webber
06 K Raikkonen
07 N Rosberg
08 F Massa
09 J Trulli
10 N Heidfeld

On balance Button did the best job, but Vettel and Barrichello, as championship contenders young and old, put in sterling effort to try to beat him. Hamilton's recovery mid-season was brilliant, and Raikkonen did very well. Rosberg was consistent. Massa was doing very well before his crash. Heidfeld beat Kubica again, proving his deftness for racing.

[jab]

Great stuff. Just one question - Montoya, 2001?

[Chiefy]

Probably an oversight on my part - but there are bound to be little anomalies here and there.

[strider]

Originally Posted by jab

Just picking a straight top 10 from the whole decade is a bit flawed, since the tendency is to have a bias towards drivers and performances in more recent seasons – see Tony Dodgins’ recent top 10 for the decade on Autosport, in which he includes Kubica but not Coulthard and Barrichello.

Every now and again Dodgins drops the ball completely as in the example you give.

Worse still, he made some negative remark about Ayrton Senna just before he was killed. I can't even remember what it was, just that I marked his card indelibly at the time and it will forever remain so.

[jab]

Originally Posted by Chiefy

Probably an oversight on my part - but there are bound to be little anomalies here and there.

Yeah, sure. It's no big deal. I'm just grateful that you've responded. Cheers

Originally Posted by strider

Every now and again Dodgins drops the ball completely as in the example you give.

Worse still, he made some negative remark about Ayrton Senna just before he was killed. I can't even remember what it was, just that I marked his card indelibly at the time and it will forever remain so.

He has some weird opinions sometimes. He's also advocated driver rotation a couple of times

[Chiefy]

Originally Posted by strider

Worse still, he made some negative remark about Ayrton Senna just before he was killed. I can't even remember what it was, just that I marked his card indelibly at the time and it will forever remain so.

Before he was killed? Surely it would be worse afterwards...

[Marbot]

Lots of people had some bad things to say about Senna before he died, often with good reason to. He was no Angel either on or off the track.

[Jamesy-18]

Originally Posted by strider

Worse still, he made some negative remark about Ayrton Senna just before he was killed. I can't even remember what it was, just that I marked his card indelibly at the time and it will forever remain so.

And that makes him a bad person does it? Pff, hardly. As Chiefy and Marbot have said, it would be worse if those comments were after his death. That is where it gets borderline offensive. Before? I see no wrong in that, everybody has differing opinions on every driver.

[strider]

Originally Posted by Jamesy-18

And that makes him a bad person does it? Pff, hardly. As Chiefy and Marbot have said, it would be worse if those comments were after his death. That is where it gets borderline offensive. Before? I see no wrong in that, everybody has differing opinions on every driver.

It must be a slow news day if this all we have to talk about. I didn't say he is a bad person either, just that I didn't like what he said then and that he still comes out with some strange opinions from time to time. It's my opinion, that's all and we're allowed to have those about journalists as well as drivers, even about people who post on here.

[Bononi]

Just one question, who's going to gather all the rankings and calculate the 10 ten of all ?

[strider]

By coincidence, James Allen has come up with his list. You can read the full article and his reasons for placing them as he does here, but I will quickly give you the list:

1. Michael Schumacher
2. Fernando Alonso
3. Lewis Hamilton
4. Kimi Raikkonen
5. Felipe Massa
6. Juan Pablo Montoya
7. Rubens Barrichello
8. Jenson Button
9. David Coulthard
10. Sebastian Vettel

It makes a lot of sense to me, but I can see that it may be controversial on here. I would probably have included Mika, but really he wasn't in F1 for long in the last decade, even if there were some great moments in his last couple of years.

[jab]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Just one question, who's going to gather all the rankings and calculate the 10 ten of all ?

Me - I set it out so it would be selfish of me to make someone else work it out

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by jab

Me - I set it out so it would be selfish of me to make someone else work it out

Great. Just tell (PM) me if you need any support from the forum. I think we can stick it and make it official.

[jab]

OK, great. Cheers Bon

[Chiefy]

There seems to be a slight lack of action here. :-/ :-S

[Marbot]

Some forum members may not have even been born in 2000.

[ASCII Man]

I can't remember as far back as 2000...

[Marbot]

Oh to be 30 again. *sighs*

[herowassenna]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Lots of people had some bad things to say about Senna before he died, often with good reason to. He was no Angel either on or off the track.

As my name suggests, this man to me was a hero.
To qualify this I am a Ferrari fan, I cannot stand Mclaren in any form and yet this man's skills transcended all that. It always dismayed me that he drove for the enemy.
In similar circumstances, I was always grateful, that Schumi drove and dominated for Ferrari, yet I can't stand the bloke. Just that my team was winning.

Before this comes across as some blinkered hero worship, I was appalled by Senna driving into Prost at Suzuka 1990. Could understand reasons why, Prost was a t****r, but his lack of regard for anybody was sickening. Ask Mr Brundle also, the amount of times they collided in F3...

People said many bad things about Senna before his death and then raised him to sainthood immediately after. No balance. Likewise, many people hated Senna before his death, yet couldn't speak highly enough of him afterwards. You see it with many fans too, who have bought into the myth with t-shirts etc. The same fans that hurled abuse at him at Silverstone whenever he broke down.

For this reason alone, I respect Piquet, who hated him in life and wouldn't allow hypocrisy to make him attend the funeral.

They always say there's a fine line between madness and genius.
I believe Senna strutted that line more than any driver before and since.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by herowassenna

People said many bad things about Senna before his death and then raised him to sainthood immediately after. No balance. Likewise, many people hated Senna before his death, yet couldn't speak highly enough of him afterwards. You see it with many fans too, who have bought into the myth with t-shirts etc. The same fans that hurled abuse at him at Silverstone whenever he broke down.

I never saw someone like you're describing. I knew blind fans that worship him as a demigod up to this day. Lots of them. I never liked Senna but I admired his extraordinary talent. I never liked the man, the obsessed one. I could tell a number of reasons why I never liked him, but when he died, some good things about him were revealed, and I realised that I could not judge him or anybody else ever. It was a lesson I learned the hardest way. I still don't like him and his ways as a racer though the talent was fantastic, but I admire what he did off-track and I became aware that the way he did was meant to be.
Piquet has his own reasons to hate Senna, reasons that would put to shame Alonso and some others characters in F1. I would say that Senna opened the way for some successful drivers and their antics that we all know so well nowadays.

[bendy]

Here's mine!

1) Schumacher
2) Alonso
3) Hamilton
4) Raikkonen
5) Barrichello
6) Montoya
7) Massa
8) Kubica
9) Vettel
10) Button

[mac]

My top ten of the decade:

1) M.Schumacher
2) F.Alonso
3) L.Hamilton
4) S.Vettel
5) M.Hakkinen
6) K.Raikkonen
7) J.Montoya
8) J.Button
9) F.Massa
10) M.Webber