Adjustable rear wing

[browney]

After watching practice with the drivers getting used to being able to use the adjustable wing everywhere. I was wondering why simply limit the wing a certain circumstance only in the race before even seeing it's effect in a race when they can use it everywhere?

They are a replacement for the F-duct, which they thought enabled overtaking and they could be used anywhere so why not use this wing in the same way. I don't see the problem with trying that for a race or two and if it doesn't help overtaking then they can limit it.

At the moment it seems like a complete gimmick to artificially help the guy behind by giving him a faster car. I don't see why the guy behind deserves this as he obviously hasn't driven as good a race or qualified as well. They don't activate outboard motors on rowing boats to help out a slower crew if one boat falls a length behind!

[Super Hans]

It's been brought in explicitly to aid overtaking. If every driver could use it at any time under race conditions it wouldn't serve any purpose at all. The defending driver could simply open his slot, cancelling out any advantage gained by the guy behind.

[browney]

But doesn't it seem completely artificial then? Like playing a computer game and getting a boost because you are falling behind.

How did the F-duct help overtaking, as you could use that anywhere?

[Super Hans]

Originally Posted by browney

But doesn't it seem completely artificial then? Like playing a computer game and getting a boost because you are falling behind.

It certainly is artificial.

Originally Posted by browney

How did the F-duct help overtaking, as you could use that anywhere?

The f-duct wasn't mandated throughout the field by the FIA. It was introduced by McLaren to exploit a gap in the rules and gain an advantage. It ceased to give them an advantage once their rivals had copied it.

[Grandpa_Rob]

It didn't seem to be helping Vettel get past Alonso in P2 when most teams were simulating race conditions yesterday....

[tristancliffe]

A 'race simulation' in practice, when the teams are trying to get tyre data, aero data, engine data etc etc without breaking their car, or showing their hand too early, is not the place to draw conclusions about the system.

When Vettel is faced with passing Alonso with 5 laps remaining and a win at stake, then we shall see how good it is.

Also bear in mind that the Renault engine is underpowered, so Vettel passing Alonso will be much harder than a Mercedes engine passing Alonso. This isn't an issue, as otherwise the Red Bulls will pass everyone and win every race. We can't stop them winning from the front, but we can try to stop them winning from further back!!!

[cmotd]

Originally Posted by Grandpa_Rob

It didn't seem to be helping Vettel get past Alonso in P2 when most teams were simulating race conditions yesterday....

I think they were only simulating the actual positioning of the wing use zone, not the one second rule, so probly both of them were using the wing at the same time - not just the guy behind as it would be in a race

[Knowlesy]

They should let them use it whenever in a race. Being unable to defend your position is just outrageously silly.

We did, however, see the downside to ARW today with Sutil having his moment.

[duke_toaster]

I like the idea of the ARW, I'm just not sure if this whole "thunderzone" one place on the track thing is a good idea. Perhaps during the race limit it's use to anywhere on the circuit but once per lap (with the lap start/end being the first corner for this purpose)? If it's once per lap it would be tactical like KERS, for example at Silverstone you could use it down the Hangar Straight or on the run down to Brooklands.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

They should let them use it whenever in a race. Being unable to defend your position is just outrageously silly.

I suppose that you could defend your position as you normally would when confronted by a faster car. See a Mr M.Schumacher for suggestions on how to do so.

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

We did, however, see the downside to ARW today with Sutil having his moment.

It's only has a downside if you use it the way Sutil did.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

They should let them use it whenever in a race. Being unable to defend your position is just outrageously silly.

We did, however, see the downside to ARW today with Sutil having his moment.

I am 100% with you on this one..

[Marbot]

If you let them use it whenever in a race, then it just cancels itself out. A bit like everyone having an F-duct to use. And as Liuzzi showed, there is a skill to using it correctly when you can use it.

[JeremySmith]

It's clever but very artificial as others have said..

[Knowlesy]

It's not really clever as such, it is the most last resort piece of thinking in the history of F1.

As duke_toaster said, it would be better if there was a strategic element similar to KERS. I was genuinely shocked when I found out they were limiting it to one straight. You should have to fight to pass your adversary, not effectively be waved past.

[Adam43]

Let's hope it doesn't lead to too much overtaking. Otherwise the fans will not like it.

[Super Hans]

I have created a device which turns my telly off whenever someone uses the adjustable rear wing to make a pass.

[ralf fan]

I'm skeptical it will do any good. By midseason you will see it not even being an issue. Just like KERS and the Pirelli tyres.

[JeremySmith]

I am calling AT&T U-Verse for a refund...

[ralf fan]

I am still convinced the best way to improve the show is to put the cars on good tracks.

Interlagos, Spa, Canada always produce corkers regardless of the rules.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Let's hope it doesn't lead to too much overtaking. Otherwise the fans will not like it.

Most would much rather just watch Alonso struggle to get by Petrov, and maybe even tomorrow they will still prefer that.

Originally Posted by Super Hans

I have created a device which turns my telly off whenever someone uses the adjustable rear wing to make a pass.

I've got a similar one which turns my telly off whenever team orders are blatantly used. I suspect that it won't be half as active as your device, however.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ralf fan

I am still convinced the best way to improve the show is to put the cars on good tracks.

Relieving them of the majority of their downforce would ensure that they could race on any tracks. But F1 fans would then be up in arms about F1 cars being too slow, which is why we now have the ARW to ensure that the cars are still F1 fan friendly and still have a chance of getting by the car in front.

If only all of those other series would slice a chunk of downforce off of their cars we might not then get the complaints or the gimmicks.

[JeremySmith]

I told you people would be complaining..

[stripedcat]

Originally Posted by Marbot

It's only has a downside if you use it the way Sutil did.

Hehehehehe. He used it to good effect there. Was lucky he got away with that.

I wonder if the wing would help with drifting into a corner? I am thinking of a Piquet style around the outside of Senna (in Hungary 1986). Sutil certainly used it nearly that way.

[browney]

Originally Posted by Adam43

Let's hope it doesn't lead to too much overtaking. Otherwise the fans will not like it.

I like to see overtaking, but seeing a driver with a faster car overtaken by a slower one, on the straight, just because of a rule is not what I had in mind. Where is the driver skill in that?

What would be wrong with drastically reducing downforce and giving them more powerful engines so that lap times don't blow out, rather than gimmicks? That way the cars would be slower mid corner and we might see more possible overtaking lines (like watching 1000cc motorcycles race, especially if there is not traction control).

All said, I actually thought last year was a fantastic season with only one or two tracks that had bad races (ie. Circuit de Catalunya). I think we were 90% of the way last year. If those cars had more restrictions on the front and rear wings, no double decker diffusers and maybe slightly larger engines (or raise the rpm limit, allow more engines per season or have KERS, etc.), I'd be happy enough to let it alone.

[dsg]

Originally Posted by Marbot

Most would much rather just watch Alonso struggle.

Fixed.