JPM / JV incident - Page 4

Louis B. · 11 Oct 2005, 19:41 (Ref:1431075)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I have looked in slow-mo at the replay, yes.

Whatever you, or I or Uncle Tom Cobley think is irrelevant though.

The stewards' decision is final.

Come on K-B! it's a discussion forum where we can be for one moment in our life a team principal, steward, editorialist, race analyst, team engineer, etc. at the same time. What's your call based upon your experience and viewing:

a) the stewards were right;
b) not enough evidence; or
c) the stewards were wrong.

Knowlesy · 11 Oct 2005, 19:51 (Ref:1431084)

a) The stewards were right.

Next question.

Louis B. · 11 Oct 2005, 20:45 (Ref:1431153)

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowlesy

a) The stewards were right.

Next question.

Kicking-back · 11 Oct 2005, 20:52 (Ref:1431162)

a) the stewards were right

Kirk · 11 Oct 2005, 21:13 (Ref:1431184)

d) we don't know what video the stewards had at hand to base their decision on, therefore, undetermined.

Louis B. · 11 Oct 2005, 21:20 (Ref:1431190)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

a) the stewards were right

Which means that, according to you, it was deliberate bearing in mind what you wrote on Sept. 12, 2005:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I'm all for penalties for deliberate actions, but for mere mistakes, I don't see the point.

humm... I guess you have access to the radio communications during the race and that you overheard JV whispering to himself: "Take that you sob!" at the pertinent turn.

Kicking-back · 11 Oct 2005, 21:22 (Ref:1431195)

I believe it was either deliberate or negligent, yes.

It was not a simple mistake.

Dutton · 11 Oct 2005, 21:24 (Ref:1431197)

Are mistakes not a form of negligence though?

Have we not done this topic to death?

Kirk · 11 Oct 2005, 21:25 (Ref:1431201)

That's a pretty strong testimony there K-B! Are you really JPM?

Kirk · 11 Oct 2005, 21:26 (Ref:1431204)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

Are mistakes not a form of negligence though?

Have we not done this topic to death?

Yep!

Louis B. · 11 Oct 2005, 21:27 (Ref:1431206)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I believe it was either deliberate or negligent, yes.

It was not a simple mistake.

So Sato was not negligent when he ran into MS' back at Spa.

I will end my cross-examination here my Lord. No more questions.

Kicking-back · 11 Oct 2005, 21:27 (Ref:1431207)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

Are mistakes not a form of negligence though?

Missing a braking point on a slippery surface because you were unsure of the grip available is a mistake, but not negligence. Could happen to anyone, anytime.

Not being aware of your position on the track relative to another car is negligent.

Quote:

Have we not done this topic to death?

Probably.

The neutrals will make up their own minds.

The anti-JV's will say he's wrong regardless.

The pro-JV's will say he's right regardless.

I suppose

Louis B. · 11 Oct 2005, 21:36 (Ref:1431213)

I'm done too. Thks for the good fight everyone... until the next race (and perhaps last occasion to have such discussions insofar as JV is concerned).

Jordi · 11 Oct 2005, 21:45 (Ref:1431223)

I don't have as much evidence as others seem to have, so I still can't say whose fault it was. However, it's not going to change my life anyway, I'm just spending my time here...

jhansen · 11 Oct 2005, 21:52 (Ref:1431236)

Well I can agree with that. I have not seen or read anything that would convince me one way or the other.

djinvicta · 11 Oct 2005, 21:59 (Ref:1431240)

Perhaps after all this chit chat it was a "racing incident". JPM being his looney racer self and JV saying," no youre not coming past". One of those incidents that happen between two guys with places to prove. JPM tried it and it ballsed up.

Knowlesy · 12 Oct 2005, 16:22 (Ref:1431947)

JPM didn't 'try' anything.

He swerved to avoid JV, who was day dreaming. This had the result of putting himself into the tyre barrier. It was either that or go over the back of JV, which no doubt would have met with the JV fans' seal of approval.

Kirk · 12 Oct 2005, 16:27 (Ref:1431951)

I'd like to see that clip knowlesy. Got a copy? You seem to have seen more than the rest of us .. or is that just your imagination on overdrive?

Knowlesy · 12 Oct 2005, 16:42 (Ref:1431972)

I do have a copy, yes.

However, I'm struggling to fit a VHS cassette into my CD-ROM drive.

From what I can see, it is pretty obvious. JPM wasn't right alongside JV from the footage.

Also, JPM has said he was pushed off, which some seem to interpret as contact. JPM does not talk perfect english and therefore this is a slightly inaccurate comment, but I know what he's getting at, he basically had nowhere to go and was "pushed" into an avoidance manouevre.

That is my summary from the evidence there is. It may be wrong of course, but I'm pretty sure of it.

Kirk · 12 Oct 2005, 17:03 (Ref:1431991)

Or he was too stubborn to consider using his brakes, instead pedal to the metal and hope for a miracle. He had no chance of taking JV on the outside of that corner that I could see; even if JV could somehow defy physics and leave a car width for him to try. He was going off regardless. I think he just screwed up.
But as many have said, the footage available is far from conclusive ... and it sounds like you are watching the same "glimpse" that we all had. Only the drivers know for sure what went down and if I were a moderator, I'd be closing this (exhausted) thread.

NO1SPECIAL · 12 Oct 2005, 17:06 (Ref:1431995)

oh for gawd's sake...nothing that was shown on tv is any real good for proving who was in the right or wrong in this incident. that said, i guess the best we can do is defer to the stewards - sorry Louis B.

Knowlesy · 12 Oct 2005, 17:07 (Ref:1432000)

Use his brakes and then cause someone behind to plough into him no doubt.

It is a no win situation for JPM, most probably born out of someone else's on-track negligence, as a career sadly winds down to a flickering end.

Kirk · 12 Oct 2005, 17:10 (Ref:1432006)

I think JPM has a few years left yet, he just has to use his brain on the track a little more.

**Adam43** · 12 Oct 2005, 17:10 (Ref:1432007)

Closed.

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