No driver orders at Mclaren?/McLaren under investigation

[Marbot]

We seem to be under the illusion that the British press have officially complained to the FIA.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Wow, the English press eats together at the same hour, in an Italian restaurant, no less... Well, at least they have taste.

I think you know who I mean (their driver finished third).

[Knowlesy]

I hardly think it was Ferrari, somehow.

They protest many things, but I don't think they are that hypocritical. Besides, we'd know about it.

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

We seem to be under the illusion that the British press have officially complained to the FIA.

Almost as silly as jumping to the conclusion that it was Ferrari, isn't it? Anyhow, I don't think breaching the sporting conduct requires anyone to officially complain.

[Knowlesy]

The FIA have taken the decision themselves. It's their call.

You have to conclude that they have done this because of the hysterical reaction exhibited from certain quarters.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I hardly think it was Ferrari, somehow.

They protest many things, but I don't think they are that hypocritical. Besides, we'd know about it.

Hypocrasy is nothing new to F1.

[Alan Raine]

The British press have hyped Hamilton up so much and believe half the crap they write, that they think there biased opinion mattered.

I haven't seen the 2nd half of the race yet but it was fairly obvious what was going on when Hamilton ducked in behind Alonso at the start and made no attempt to overtake whatsoever.

McLaren didn't cheat, they played the team game. Ferrari made Barrichelo slow to let TGF through to win. That to me is different and I admire Rubens for making it look so obvious.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Sev

My god. A thread, where two trolls are managing to stir up a massive crowd.

I too voted Alonso "Driver of the day".

I didn't get to vote on the team,car or strategy of the day however.

[mjstallard]

Gah, what a load of BS

I was riled enough last night when the 10 O'Clock news that Lewis had "failed" to win a race again, but now the mighty annoyance power of the British media has reached new heights.

F1 is and has always been a team sport, and teams must employ strategies to ensure that they get the best result for the team.

As Ron says:

Team strategy is what you bring to bear to win a Grand Prix. Team orders is what you bring to bear to manipulate a Grand Prix.

I feel like I'm just regurgitating a lot of what has been said on here already, but it is simply not the case that this is on par with the Ferrari team orders debacle in Austria all those moons ago. Nor is this situation on par with the famous Senna/Mansell battle Monaco back in '92 - the team strategy for both Williams and McLaren was clear that to race for position was essential!

One thing off topic of interest I found on Autosport was this quote from Ron:

And we do not and have not manipulated Grands Prix, unless there were some exceptional circumstances, which occurred, for example, in Australia [1998], when at that time someone had tapped into our radio and instructed Mika Hakkinen to enter the pits.

I had no idea that there was radio tom-foolery in that race!

Anyway, I hope this nonsense is done and dusted before too long and we can get back to some decent racing at Canada and Indy.

[phoenix]

In Monaco, the only way Hamilton could have passed Alonso safely, would be if Ron Dennis had ordered Alonso to let Hamilton pass.

Which team order - the one to hold station or the one to tell Alonso to let Hamilton pass safely - is the less 'sporting'?

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya

Almost as silly as jumping to the conclusion that it was Ferrari, isn't it?

I was just trying to show precisely that.

As Knowlesy says,I'm sure the FIA can reach their own conclusions without any interference from outside sources.

And if that is the case then they obviously have no idea what this "sport" is all about.

[pole2pole]

I think the FIA have opened up a can of worms here. The way i see this is if Hamilton would have got pole and got a great start then he would have won the race. I think what has to be understood is that McLarens number one priority is to win the constructors title. If they take any action against McLaren then fans around the world will be looking at the FIA and wondering what was the story with ferrari and michael for all those years. It will be interesting to see how the FIA deal with this.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by pole2pole

I think the FIA have opened up a can of worms here.

And not for the first time.

Originally Posted by pole2pole

The way i see this is if Hamilton would have got pole and got a great start then he would have won the race.

He wasn't likely to get pole carrying 5 to 6 more laps of fuel than Alonso.

Originally Posted by pole2pole

I think what has to be understood is that McLarens number one priority is to win the constructors title.

And it shows.

Originally Posted by pole2pole

If they take any action against McLaren then fans around the world will be looking at the FIA and wondering what was the story with ferrari and michael for all those years. It will be interesting to see how the FIA deal with this.

I think that it's precisely because of what Ferrari were doing that the FIA are looking at this.And yes,it will be very interesting to see how they deal with it.

[Adam43]

So we had it isn't a sport because McLaren have team orders and it isn't a sport because FIA are looking into this.

Not a sport which ever way you look at it martyn. Which, I think, is the reason it is not a sport for you.

[f1manoz]

It appears the FIA has bowed the gutter press that exists in Britain that Lewis Hamilton seemed to have some divine right to win the Monaco Grand Prix on Sunday but due to Alonso being better on the day and so Hamilton was told to hold station, this was team orders and he was robbed of a win?

Are you people having an absolute laugh?

You were not robbed of a race. There never was a race! Alonso had the race in the bag from the first corner. He pulled out a monumental lead and had he kept pushing Hamilton would never have had a look in. Fuel loads or not, Hamilton was not going to pass Alonso.

Another point. It's impossible to pass at Monaco. Do you really think Hamilton could have passed Alonso on the track? Hamilton was never going to pass him at the pitstops as Alonso had enough time in hand.

The argument that we were robbed of a race or that Hamilton was robbed of victory is completely spurious and this thread should be closed now as the entire argument, and subsequent FIA investigation, is completely and utterly ridiculous.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

So we had it isn't a sport because McLaren have team orders and it isn't a sport because FIA are looking into this.

Not a sport which ever way you look at it martyn. Which, I think, is the reason it is not a sport for you.

""Everyone in the pit lane would be saying what an idiot the team principal of McLaren is for allowing their cars to compete to a level where one of their cars and maybe two of them are in the barrier."" RD

Would that be at the top level Ron?

I think that the only thing the FIA need to be looking into,is the reason why teams need to use "team orders" in the first place.

[f1manoz]

IMO Ron Dennis will not be happy that Hamilton has mouthed off such as he has and that this investigation has begun due to his comments.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by f1manoz

You were not robbed of a race. There never was a race! Alonso had the race in the bag from the first corner. He pulled out a monumental lead and had he kept pushing Hamilton would never have had a look in. Fuel loads or not, Hamilton was not going to pass Alonso.

No there was never a race,just a very elaborate game of chess.

"monumental lead", hmmmm

And you're right,Hamilton was never going to pass Alonso.

[Adam43]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I think that the only thing the FIA need to be looking into,is the reason why teams need to use "team orders" in the first place.

Why would the FIA need to look into this? It is obvious.

Originally Posted by martyn bott

No there was never a race...

Change your sig to that and then you won't have to keep repeating yourself.

Originally Posted by f1manoz

Are you people having an absolute laugh?

Who are "you"?

[andy_b]

how many legitimate passes were there, after Lap 1 when things settled down. I can't remember ANY. Look at Raikkonen, stuck behind the Williams wasn't it. A vastly inferior car to the Ferrari....so how exactly does the British press think Lewis could get past Alonso?

Alonso seemed to be on a cruise while Lewis was quite ragged, trying to keep up.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Change your sig to that and then you won't have to keep repeating yourself.

I think that my current sig says all that I need it to.

[f1manoz]

Originally Posted by AdamAshmore

Who are "you"?

People who think Hamilton was robbed a win on Sunday.

Granted, perhaps monumental lead was a tad exaggerated, but Alonso was never in trouble from Hamilton. Anything Hamilton could do, Alonso responded with ease.

[chillibowl]

Mclaren should be happy that all this controversy talk is now being aimed at them...thats what people do when you start winning. i guess Ron Ron has just forgoten what its like

[Gt_R]

Why is it a surprise? There was never a doubt that Mclaren is the same from other top teams like Ferrari, in implementing team orders when it is neccessary to secure the best result.

Unfortunately, the critics bring up the Ferrari/Austria affair. And the only thing i can find amusing is how those people who criticise Ferrari can at the same time try putting a brave front to defend Mclaren. The argument used then "its still early in the season...and Mclaren only use team orders at worse by season end" falls flat here. It's round 5.

I think it's fair that Hamilton felt hard done. Ron has admitted that they reverted Hamilton to a 2 stopper, a supposedly "faster" strategy. But faster for what?

Hamilton is never under threat from behind, and remaining on a one-stopper (Hamilton has good long distance pace) actually gives him an opportunity to leap frog Alonso when FA makes a second pit. Overtaking is hard on this circuit, especially against a teammate. By putting Hamilton on a 2-stopper kills his chances, because it also meant that Hamilton ran heavy in qualifying (hence qualifying 2nd behind FA) for nothing.

People complain how RB wasnt allowed to race MS. But there is a clear disparity in pace and ability. And that is lacking when we compare LH and FA, with LH actually leading and matching FA.

The same critics of FIA saying how they should not investigate Mclaren is really getting things more hard to comprehend. Are those not the same people who demanded Ferrari be checked for almost everything... well now that FIA is willing to do their work... these people suddenly have an issue with the governance.

I'm really ok with Mclaren practising what they did...from team's point of view it is the best thing to do. But 1) Please stop Ron from justifying and pretending how sporting Mclaren is , and how their team-orders are really different (it's a strategy, not manipulation)... 2) their fans just for once face it that Mclaren uses team orders too, early on in seasons and have preferential treatment like the other teams

[Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

I think that the only thing the FIA need to be looking into,is the reason why teams need to use "team orders" in the first place.

Why would the FIA waste their time looking into this? The answer is contained within your statement which I quoted above : " Teams... use... "team orders.." "