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Old 19 Mar 2017, 13:26 (Ref:3720004)   #3436
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
The yellow procedure in IndyCar is why I don't watch it anymore. Regularly cars dominate and then end up finishing 10th because of a badly timed yellow flag. That's not much fun IMO. It doesn't happen in similar series because the races are longer (IMSA - there is time to make up the bad lucky) or they have less full course yellows (F1 - so it doesn't happen as often). Whilst the randomisation that yellows cause can be fun, it isn't fun when it happens to multiple drivers every weekend.

If you want randomised racing based on luck, then swallow your pride and do reverse grids out of a hat BTCC style. IndyCar stopped being fun a while back for me, and one of the reasons was it felt like 75% of the race was pointless as it'd all get shaken up in a late race yellow anyway.
For the sake of few FCYs like the one at St. Pete's, you've been missing out on some excellent racing.
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Old 19 Mar 2017, 14:27 (Ref:3720015)   #3437
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Originally Posted by bjohnsonsmith View Post
For the sake of few FCYs like the one at St. Pete's, you've been missing out on some excellent racing.
I've tried watching. If I stop watching a series because it isn't fun, I do go back and give it another try at various points to see if it's a better fit for me later.

Aside from the FCYs, I also hate the uninteresting and hideous cars, the races are too short and it's too hard to watch (as in, get legal good quality coverage) compared to other series. The FCYs are just one of many things that put me off the series.

I don't frequent the IndyCar forum, as it's not really a good thing to spam the forum with reasons I don't watch. But for what it's worth, the FCY structure, crap TV coverage and awful cars is what stopped me watching it. And the FCYs are pretty easy to fix IMO. If I want randomness thrown into racing, I watch BTCC, because at least that's honest about how it mixes things up.

Just my 2 cents from an ex-fan.
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Old 19 Mar 2017, 22:33 (Ref:3720079)   #3438
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I've tried watching. If I stop watching a series because it isn't fun, I do go back and give it another try at various points to see if it's a better fit for me later.

Aside from the FCYs, I also hate the uninteresting and hideous cars, the races are too short and it's too hard to watch (as in, get legal good quality coverage) compared to other series. The FCYs are just one of many things that put me off the series.

I don't frequent the IndyCar forum, as it's not really a good thing to spam the forum with reasons I don't watch. But for what it's worth, the FCY structure, crap TV coverage and awful cars is what stopped me watching it. And the FCYs are pretty easy to fix IMO. If I want randomness thrown into racing, I watch BTCC, because at least that's honest about how it mixes things up.

Just my 2 cents from an ex-fan.
Interesting as I find some similarities with F1. The cars are not particularly interesting. The rules are so rigid, it's practically a spec series, so very little variation and differentiation in the way the cars look. I don't subscribe to Sky, so coverage for those races not shown live on Channel 4 (as opposed to legal good quality coverage) is hit and miss. Though I can just about handle push to pass, as drivers are limited to the number of times it can be used, I've never liked DRS. Race length is more or less the same as F1.

I don't think there's anything dishonest about the randomness that can be thrown up by IndyCar, compared to BTCC, it's just how it is and has been like that for sometime. At least the random aspect means the dominant driver/team isn't always going to win.

The last few F1 season's have been predictably boring. I stopped watching F1 during the Schumacher/Ferrari years because it got monotonous and I've been thinking about doing the same again with F1. If the 2017 F1 season is anything like the last few, despite the new car regs, I'll start to miss races.
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Old 20 Mar 2017, 17:56 (Ref:3720265)   #3439
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Interesting as I find some similarities with F1. The cars are not particularly interesting. The rules are so rigid, it's practically a spec series, so very little variation and differentiation in the way the cars look. I don't subscribe to Sky, so coverage for those races not shown live on Channel 4 (as opposed to legal good quality coverage) is hit and miss. Though I can just about handle push to pass, as drivers are limited to the number of times it can be used, I've never liked DRS. Race length is more or less the same as F1.
I agree. That's also why I don't watch F1 as much. But F1 has far less safety cars than IndyCar and utilises FCYs, so the random effect is minimised in F1. TV coverage (like IndyCar) is completely dire and overly expensive, and like you I hate DRS.

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The last few F1 season's have been predictably boring. I stopped watching F1 during the Schumacher/Ferrari years because it got monotonous and I've been thinking about doing the same again with F1. If the 2017 F1 season is anything like the last few, despite the new car regs, I'll start to miss races.
I actually get the same feeling with IndyCar, because there always seems to be a random roll of the dice that means half the race was worthless. It felt monotonous sitting down to watch a 2 hour race, of which the first 90 minutes could be completely disregarded. You can achieve an IndyCar random result by making races 30 minutes wrong and randomising the grid. That's what put me off it completely.

If that's what people want, then awesome. I'm not going to sit and tell you that's wrong because it's not - different preferences for different folks. But IndyCar is a shadow of its formal sense, and I figured it might be worth hearing an ex-fans opinion. I watched both CART and IRL through the 90s and 2000s, and even attended a CART race (that's relatively rare for a Brit!), but I just can't watch the new IndyCar. It doesn't feel like IndyCar to me, at all.
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Old 21 Mar 2017, 04:24 (Ref:3720356)   #3440
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Originally Posted by Akrapovic View Post
If that's what people want, then awesome. I'm not going to sit and tell you that's wrong because it's not - different preferences for different folks. But IndyCar is a shadow of its formal sense, and I figured it might be worth hearing an ex-fans opinion. I watched both CART and IRL through the 90s and 2000s, and even attended a CART race (that's relatively rare for a Brit!), but I just can't watch the new IndyCar. It doesn't feel like IndyCar to me, at all.
I don't believe the randomness of safety cars are what the people want. I believe the majority of Indycar fans want a substance in the result that reflects and rewards the driver and team that have the most pace and consistency across a race a distance.

I also don't feel that people continuously highlighting that Indycar is a shadow of its former 80s/90s self is that enlightening. I dont think anyone disagrees or isnt aware of this fact.

What is does have is a good racing product as shown in 2016. The cars might not be a 1991 Jordan however some suggestions that people wont watch the racing due to the look of the cars is ludicrous & not the type of fan the series should be targeting anyways
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Old 22 Mar 2017, 22:04 (Ref:3720786)   #3441
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I agree. That's also why I don't watch F1 as much. But F1 has far less safety cars than IndyCar and utilises FCYs, so the random effect is minimised in F1. TV coverage (like IndyCar) is completely dire and overly expensive, and like you I hate DRS.

I actually get the same feeling with IndyCar, because there always seems to be a random roll of the dice that means half the race was worthless. It felt monotonous sitting down to watch a 2 hour race, of which the first 90 minutes could be completely disregarded. You can achieve an IndyCar random result by making races 30 minutes wrong and randomising the grid. That's what put me off it completely.

If that's what people want, then awesome. I'm not going to sit and tell you that's wrong because it's not - different preferences for different folks. But IndyCar is a shadow of its formal sense, and I figured it might be worth hearing an ex-fans opinion. I watched both CART and IRL through the 90s and 2000s, and even attended a CART race (that's relatively rare for a Brit!), but I just can't watch the new IndyCar. It doesn't feel like IndyCar to me, at all.
CART was an exceptional series and I have to agree, IndyCar is a shadow of it's former self. I will watch a race and think back to when they were racing Marchs, Lolas or Reynards. I have downloaded pretty much every CART season, so I'm not wearing rose tinted specs and drinking Kool Aid.

However, IndyCar has come a long way since unification and they are trying to improve the series. Fortunately, because Boston was a non-starter, not one but two iconic road tracks were back on the calendar and both produced good racing, plus a good core nucleus of tracks is coming together.

I'll continue to watch and follow IndyCar because no other open wheel series has the variety of tracks and personally, I find the racing is closer and better than F1.

Which CART race did you go to?
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Old 23 Mar 2017, 08:33 (Ref:3720848)   #3442
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Nazareth was my favourite, awesome.

How can you call these cars of recent years open wheeled though, they look like Fairground rides.
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Old 29 Mar 2017, 19:22 (Ref:3722483)   #3443
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CART was an exceptional series and I have to agree, IndyCar is a shadow of it's former self. I will watch a race and think back to when they were racing Marchs, Lolas or Reynards. I have downloaded pretty much every CART season, so I'm not wearing rose tinted specs and drinking Kool Aid.

However, IndyCar has come a long way since unification and they are trying to improve the series. Fortunately, because Boston was a non-starter, not one but two iconic road tracks were back on the calendar and both produced good racing, plus a good core nucleus of tracks is coming together.

I'll continue to watch and follow IndyCar because no other open wheel series has the variety of tracks and personally, I find the racing is closer and better than F1.

Which CART race did you go to?
Late reply to this, sorry about that!

I used to have a copy of all the CART races from 1997 to 2000. Some Eurosport broadcasts, others not. Unfortunately those are long gone from a hard drive crash. I fully agree with you - there was no rose tints when it comes to CART - it really was an incredible series.

You're probably right that IndyCar has come a long way since unification though. Maybe I'm in the minority though, but I prefer the old Dallara days 2007 onward. It just seemed better IMO. Since the DW12 came along, I haven't enjoyed it. But maybe that's just me (and if it is, that's ok - I'll just have to accept that). I guess I've kinda dropped open wheel racing, which makes me a bit sad.

I attended the 2006 Long Beach GP (CCWS days, rather than CART. It'll never get remembered as a classic (flag to flag win for Bourdais iirc), but it was an incredible time for me. Had a media pass and was able to go right up to the catch fence and wander anywhere. Those were good days.
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Old 29 Mar 2017, 20:09 (Ref:3722491)   #3444
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More on the 2018 car.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128707
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 10:37 (Ref:3722581)   #3445
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Man this is a looooong break between race 1 and race 2. For a season that ends so early that's not good. Giving people the chance to forget about you after one race on network tv doesn't seem smart either.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 12:19 (Ref:3722592)   #3446
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Like the look on the new car, hope it does what is required for the series
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 13:33 (Ref:3722605)   #3447
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Late reply to this, sorry about that!

I used to have a copy of all the CART races from 1997 to 2000. Some Eurosport broadcasts, others not. Unfortunately those are long gone from a hard drive crash. I fully agree with you - there was no rose tints when it comes to CART - it really was an incredible series.

You're probably right that IndyCar has come a long way since unification though. Maybe I'm in the minority though, but I prefer the old Dallara days 2007 onward. It just seemed better IMO. Since the DW12 came along, I haven't enjoyed it. But maybe that's just me (and if it is, that's ok - I'll just have to accept that). I guess I've kinda dropped open wheel racing, which makes me a bit sad.

I attended the 2006 Long Beach GP (CCWS days, rather than CART. It'll never get remembered as a classic (flag to flag win for Bourdais iirc), but it was an incredible time for me. Had a media pass and was able to go right up to the catch fence and wander anywhere. Those were good days.
I keep the races on an external hard drive but they are readily available on YouTube. Some seasons aren't complete but I've got most of them from 1984 onwards.

Since the DW12, the pack racing typified an IndyCar race on ovals has gone, which I think is a good thing as it was dangerous. It is ironic to think that Dan Wheldon, who did so much of the testing and shake down of the DW12, and after whom the DW was derived, was killed in a typical pack race driving a Dallara IR05 in its very last race.

I've always had mixed thoughts about the DW12. It has produced good racing but it was certainly no looker and since the the introduction of aero-kits, some aspects of the cars aesthetics have improved but others haven't.

Having seen the latest images for the 2018, it would appear that the IndyCar/Dallara have opted for something that resembles the cars from the CART era, which I think many fans were hoping for, when the ICONIC committee got together back in 2010 to discus the replacement for the Dallara IR05. It's a bit of a shame it's taken so long to come round to this, as I think it would really have helped the series, especially post unification. A number of chassis manufacturers, including Dallara, proposed a similar design back in 2010.

This was just one of Dallara's concepts for 2012, which is not too far off the one they are working on for 2018, minus the shark fin.





I went to Long Beach once in 1998 but otherwise I used to go to Laguna Seca as I lived very near Monterey. I wish IndyCar would return there.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 13:50 (Ref:3722608)   #3448
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Now dig the 2.65l turbo V8 rules outta the file.
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Old 30 Mar 2017, 21:52 (Ref:3722666)   #3449
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Dario Franchitti and the late Bruce McLaren Elected to Auto Racing Hall of Fame at IMS Museum.

Congratulations to both but I'm surprised it's taken this long for Bruce McLaren to be elected.

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Old 30 Mar 2017, 22:03 (Ref:3722667)   #3450
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Now dig the 2.65l turbo V8 rules outta the file.
I wish but I think they'll continue to use the current engine, even though Jan Frye's 5 year plan ends in 2020. They want to get other manufacturers on board, and I don't think Chevy and Honda would want to spend money, on developing a new engine, as the series tries to make it less expensive. To quote Frye: "We have two great partners now with Chevrolet and Honda. They understand it’s important to the series and the league to have a third or fourth partner, and they’re very actively participating in it with us."

This is worth reading. http://www.indycar.com/News/2017/01/...DYCAR-new-OEMs
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